#130 - Building Extreme Expedition Kayaks with Rob Feloy

WEBVTT

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Welcome to Paddling the Blue. With each episode, we talk with guests from the

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Great Lakes and around the globe who are doing cool things related to sea kayaking.

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I'm your host, my name is John Chase, and let's get started paddling the blue.

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Welcome to today's episode of Paddling the Blue.

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You may not be familiar with Rob Folloy's name, but you may know some of his kayaks.

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Rob has designed and built kayaks for some of the world's most extreme paddling expeditions.

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And just to name a few from previous episodes, Rob built the boat that Patrick

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Winterton and Ollie Hicks used on the Shetland bus, the double used by Ollie

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Hicks and George Bullard to cross from Greenland to Scotland,

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Cyril Darylmo's kayak, Valentine, that has crossed from California to Hawaii

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and as of this recording is making its way across the Atlantic.

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You can catch those conversations with Patrick on episode 68,

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Ollie Hicks on episode 72, and Cyril on episode 71.

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But today we're going to talk about the process that goes into creating one

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of these extreme expedition craft.

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Before we get to today's conversation with Rob, James and Simon at OnlineSeaKyaking.com

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continue to produce great content to help you evolve as a paddler and as a coach.

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surfing, coaching, documentaries, expedition skills, and incident management, and more.

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And if you're looking to find or improve your role, they also have a 36-lesson

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rolling course, and it's all in one place.

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Enjoy today's episode with Rob Falloy. Hello, Rob. Thank you for joining us today.

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John, hello, and I've apologized for being rather elusive previously than you've

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been chasing me. No worries.

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No worries. I appreciate you not considering me a pest and joining me today

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for an episode of Paddling the Blue. Thank you. You're welcome.

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So, Rob, tell us a little bit about you and your background.

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How did you get started building kayaks and paddling? oh goes back a long long

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time I guess I built my first kayak was one of those little you know plywood

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stitch and glue kit boats you could get I built that when I was 10 or 11.

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I think previously I my my dad

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had when we first moved to Devon which

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was a long time 60 odd years ago we he

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bought one of those mirror dinghy kits which was

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a stitch and glue sort of two-man dinghy

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and he sort of built that in

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our garage with myself and my

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brother helping although I'm sure we weren't much of a help because I

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think I was probably six and even my brother was younger

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you know but that sort of I that was the sort of got me going then I you know

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I built this little ultra sports plywood canoe and then when I went to I went

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to sort of a pretty interesting school,

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sort of secondary school and I was

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I was sort of keen on paddling I didn't do very

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much then but I when I got there I sort of

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pestered them about you know having

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a canoe club at the school and luckily

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there was a guy called Alan Binge who was the maintenance man at the school

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was a was a paddler I mean we're going back in you know in the mid-1960s here

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there weren't many paddlers around so luckily and he was also a trained boat

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builder before he worked there and.

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So he agreed to this and then first we didn't have any canoes,

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so we had to build them. Oh, no.

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So we built a sort of bunch of stitch and glue kick boats to start with and then somewhere,

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I don't know where he got, he got a mould for a single slalom canoe from somewhere

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and we built some slalom,

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glass fibre slalom kayaks so we could paddle on the river.

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There's a really nice river, the River Dart, which is just here where I live.

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It's one of the UK's sort of best whitewater rivers, really.

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So I was very lucky to be here.

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Yeah, so I spent most of my time at school.

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Building kayaks or paddling one way or another.

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That's an early start. Especially getting that spark at age six with your father. Yeah.

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You know, so I've really done little else than work on the sea,

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around the sea, either with boats, either building or sailing or stint commercial fishing.

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And a long, my main sort of career was yacht surveys.

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Okay. Okay, that's sorted.

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Must have done 30 years. So that, those first fiberglass boats,

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you know, as I said, you know, the first exploration with fiberglass and everybody's

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in a small closed room with fumes and not trying to, not knowing that they should open the room up.

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Oh yeah, you wouldn't be able to do it now. I mean, I don't,

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I don't think, no, you can't, you can't do it now.

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No, I mean, a friend of mine does, works at

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a local school doing design technology you

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know i think that's what it's called now okay make you think and i

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talked to him a while ago about yeah why don't you build

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some kayaks he said no you can't you know can't do that we can't have resin

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we can't have fumes we can't have fiberglass or anything okay i mean yeah no

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it doesn't doesn't fit into the modern ethos yeah so i guess that early exposure

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and then And at six and then at 10,

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building your own first boat and then continuing through school,

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that's, I guess, how you transitioned to becoming the world's leading trans-oceanic boat builder.

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Yeah, that's a very grand title, John.

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Maybe I'm the only one. I don't know. You've earned it.

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You know, there's, yeah, yeah. It's a sort of long thing.

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I spent, I spent quite, I, I've had lots of lucky breaks in my life,

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you know, just fortuitous meetings and so on to move on to the next thing.

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So I spent quite a while building, working for people, building,

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you know, big ocean racing yachts and racing multi-hulls and so on.

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And and that was that was

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a very fortuitous meeting I was

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the last boat I

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built when I was last kayak I

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built when I was at school with this lifelong friend

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Alan it was was my first

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Inuk actually which is the my my sort of kayak brand name was a really sort

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of very long thin sort of s you know inuit style kayak but made out of cold molded veneer.

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Which I've still got the boat, and it's sort of a veneered, it's a round bilge

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Inuit kayak rather than hard china.

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It's very narrow, but it's all veneered mahogany, the whole thing.

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Well, that must be beautiful. Veneered mahogany.

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And I say it myself, it is a very beautiful, stunning boat.

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I was paddling that down through harbour locally, There was a really,

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very interesting little trimaran there, which I paddled over to have a look at.

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Guy popped his head out from inside the boat. You know, we started chatting.

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He was looking at my kayak and said, oh, that's really nice.

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Where did you get that? And so I said, you know, I bought that,

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built it. And he said, oh, okay, I've got a project happening in Bristol. Do you want a job?

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And that guy was a guy called Nigel Irons.

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I don't know who said, but he's retired now.

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But he was one of the world's leading multi-hole designers.

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Okay. became one of the world's leading master hall designers

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and built yeah designed and built

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loads of sort of real or specialist boats

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and and so on so i had great opportunity to you know i just had the right place

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at the right time and went start started working for for nigel that's great

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that's great and learned a

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lot then yeah sure so what what goes well that let's talk that first Inuk.

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How did you design that? What process do you go through to design a boat like that?

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Well, that was very much, it's probably not the process you normally use.

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I mean, that boat was based on the boat,

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the kayak that Alan had at the time, who was taking us canoeing,

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was a Percy Blandford-designed sort of touring kayak.

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And that was, again, that was a cold-moulded hull and a canvas deck.

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So that would have been a boat from the 50s.

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When you say cold-moulded.

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Well, cold-moulding is the process. You make a framework plug for the hull.

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So basically a set of cross-sections and then you put batons over that so you

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make a sort of like a caged frame to make the shape and then you take strips of veneer.

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And you sort of have to have a keel strip, and then you glue the veneer onto

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the keel strip, and then you bend it over the former, and then you hold it on with staples.

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Okay. In this, you know, the old-fashioned way is staples. You know,

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modern ways, you'd vacuum bag it, but you'd staple it down, and then you work

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your way along, and each bit of veneer you have to fit,

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and then you come back going, you know, you put it on diagonally,

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and you come back going the opposite diagonal, and then you glue the next layer

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onto the first layer, and you staple that down and make sure there are no voids.

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Okay. And you work your way along, and then you go back again.

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So normally you'd have three layers. You might have four or five layers on a

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thicker hull, but three layers.

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So you're building up, and each little strip of veneer is glued to the one below

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it and the next one. so you're sort of moulding the veneer over a former.

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Got it, okay. It's incredibly time-consuming. That sounds it.

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I think it took me a year to make that boat. Okay.

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So that was the method. So Alan had the boat.

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I quite like the rounded shape, but I sort of...

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It was, I thought, right, I'm going to make it a lot narrower.

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So four inches narrow. So I took some formers off the original,

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just two or three sort of shapes to get the sort of basic round thing and then

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cut them down, made them narrow.

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Drew out the other sections.

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I wanted a lot more rocker on it.

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So this boat had a very straight keel line.

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So I sort of just looked at that and it was all done by sort of eye.

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Okay then on then i

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also wanted much more lower volume on it

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so altered the the gunnel line

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and in fact on that boat i'd sort of

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made the hull a bit deeper wanted it

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and to get it as low as

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possible i then i then floated it and marked

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where the waterline was and decided

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you know with with enough weight in

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there to take up for for me the paddler and

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so on and where i wanted the the gunner

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line and marked it all and cut it all down to

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that so it was a very sort of suck it at sea sort of

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style approach okay to to do that

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but it worked it worked pretty well it's a it's an ultra low

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volume boat i mean the the aft deck i've got probably three

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quarter of an inch of freeboard that's it okay

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so a more intuitive feel uh with

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that design much more yeah yeah for that that and i've

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always done that really in in in many sense but you know later on i've moved

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on to you know cad computer design okay and and so yeah i i pretty a lot of

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my later boats were all cad designed.

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So you've had some expedition experience, just a little, in terms of your boats.

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So tell us about some of the expeditions that your trans-oceanic boats have been on.

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Well, I guess, yeah, I think in terms of that sort of style of boat, I think you can,

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really need to split them down into what you're calling trans-oceanic boats, which would be,

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you know obviously across oceans or

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or very long crossings and then

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there there are I you know

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I think you know there are certain there are certain sort of long crossings

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that people have done a few hundred miles that you can do in what most people

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would consider a kayak maybe you know but But when you're getting past,

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I don't know, say four or five days at sea,

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my view would be that you really have to have a craft that has some form of sealed cabin on it.

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Some form and that's self-writing, you know, something that's much more akin to ocean rowing boats,

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you know, something where the paddler can get into a relatively safe space,

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be sealed in there, and the boat is self-writing and essentially like a mini sort of safety pod.

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You know a conventional kayak however you

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try and modify it and so once you get to the point of having to sleep in it

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and spend days in it afloat you're yeah my my view would be this.

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You're extending your sort of safety margin

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certainly you know or rather you're

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reducing your safety margin really considerably you know

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so so so like the i i think

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you interviewed ollie hicks didn't you yes i did we talked

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about the voyage of the finnman yeah so they yeah one of their their cross the

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longest crossing was 300 odd miles you know four or five days i think they did

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it in four but the the allowance was you know five six days for that crossing possibly,

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that although that was in a double and we'd made little sort of tents that went

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over the cockpit so you could sort of get down and you could sleep in it and you could seal it,

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you know i think anything much longer than that you the paddler is going to

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have a problem with actually being able to sleep,

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you know, getting exhausted, getting cold, getting hypothermia,

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you know, all those sort of issues.

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So, you know, the ocean boats all have, you know, a sealed cabin on them.

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So they're essentially...

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You know you can't i they're sort

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of quite different really to what most people would consider a

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kayak agreed uh so sorry i digress there no so i think i think the i think the

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the the three boats the ocean ocean car you know ocean boats i've done would

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be the first one was Peter Bray's boat.

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He crossed the Atlantic in, I think, 2001.

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And that was sort of my first foray into that.

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And that was actually really a redesign because he had tried it the year before

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and he'd had a kayak that someone else had built for him.

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And there were a few

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issues with that boat and you know

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i'm not in the business of dissing anyone i'm sure

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about that but i think there were a couple of

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real fundamental issues with it

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and the boat nearly sank within the first i think 24 hours off newfoundland

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and he's i think he spent something like 30 hours tied to a navigation boy before he got rescued.

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And they came to me after that, and that was really through a sailing contact.

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Okay. So a guy called Tony Bullimore, who I'd done a lot of work with at times,

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and I sort of worked on building some of his race boats, racing yachts, and so on.

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And he was a sponsor for that, for their trip.

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So after the after Pete's first failure

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he he'd said to get hold

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of Rob said he's done a lot

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of work for me sailing boats and he said he's he's a really

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keen keen canoeist I think he knows about it I

00:19:20.899 --> 00:19:23.999
don't think I'd ever talked about paddling with with uh Tony

00:19:23.999 --> 00:19:26.999
but so that's how that came

00:19:26.999 --> 00:19:30.519
about and they had they

00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:34.259
had a mold for the original boat and

00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:37.699
then so we we took that and then we chopped

00:19:37.699 --> 00:19:44.519
it about and redesigned it a bit no actually not the main sort of dimensions

00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:50.859
pretty much the same but a lot of the detailing and the ways and where the hatches

00:19:50.859 --> 00:19:57.179
went and the cabin and access and the cockpit layout and various other things.

00:19:57.539 --> 00:20:01.919
Sure. I imagine each one of those attempts with different paddlers is a learning

00:20:01.919 --> 00:20:03.259
experience for you as well.

00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:07.759
You've taken something from each one and added that or redesigned that.

00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:08.879
Absolutely. Absolutely.

00:20:10.739 --> 00:20:15.999
There's never one right way of doing anything, Sean.

00:20:16.419 --> 00:20:27.579
Right. You know, I'm always, you know, interested in how other people tackle a problem.

00:20:27.859 --> 00:20:32.539
And there's normally a number of different solutions to whatever the problem is.

00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:38.219
You know, I'm not dogmatic about that sort of thing. There's never a right way of doing something.

00:20:38.879 --> 00:20:42.839
You know, there's several right ways. There's always plenty of wrong ways of doing it.

00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:47.079
Right. And it can be quite easy to make mistakes,

00:20:48.761 --> 00:20:51.401
Yeah, there's never a right, there's never a single right way.

00:20:51.801 --> 00:20:54.881
So you learn a lot from each other.

00:20:55.021 --> 00:20:58.501
And also, interestingly, I mean,

00:20:58.621 --> 00:21:06.421
I think some of the things I learned is the communication of what you're actually

00:21:06.421 --> 00:21:11.141
trying to achieve with the design and so on.

00:21:11.281 --> 00:21:14.721
And making sure that is,

00:21:14.721 --> 00:21:18.481
the boat is actually built exactly the

00:21:18.481 --> 00:21:23.521
way you want it or also as

00:21:23.521 --> 00:21:26.641
as you're building the boat there are you know

00:21:26.641 --> 00:21:29.901
there can be details that that come up that you've

00:21:29.901 --> 00:21:32.621
you've worked through a design and then as

00:21:32.621 --> 00:21:36.821
you're building it you think hmm actually we

00:21:36.821 --> 00:21:39.801
might just tweak this here or this isn't going.

00:21:39.801 --> 00:21:42.621
To quite fit because one of the one of

00:21:42.621 --> 00:21:45.701
the real challenges with this these ocean kayaks is

00:21:45.701 --> 00:21:49.021
how small they are yeah these are tiny

00:21:49.021 --> 00:21:52.361
tiny boats i mean they're like pete's

00:21:52.361 --> 00:21:56.681
boat i think was 23 foot long pretty

00:21:56.681 --> 00:22:01.761
big for a kayak but not for a boat uh like cyril's

00:22:01.761 --> 00:22:04.761
you know hawaii crossing boat was actually i think

00:22:04.761 --> 00:22:07.941
just slightly shorter than that and actually

00:22:07.941 --> 00:22:11.701
trying to fit and they're only you know because you're kayaking them

00:22:11.701 --> 00:22:15.341
there is a sort of predetermined width really you

00:22:15.341 --> 00:22:18.041
know i think you know cyril's boat is a

00:22:18.041 --> 00:22:20.781
is just about two foot

00:22:20.781 --> 00:22:23.941
six at the cockpit okay it's a little bit wider

00:22:23.941 --> 00:22:27.541
not much a little bit wider at the cabin but there's

00:22:27.541 --> 00:22:30.581
a sort of you can't get much wider

00:22:30.581 --> 00:22:35.621
because you can't paddle right so you're

00:22:35.621 --> 00:22:38.441
you're getting a pretty small boat i mean even compared to

00:22:38.441 --> 00:22:45.021
like an ocean rowing boat an ocean rowing boat is way bigger even a even a single

00:22:45.021 --> 00:22:49.901
ocean rowing boat i mean the you know the width they're at least sort of like

00:22:49.901 --> 00:22:54.641
five feet wide just because you've got to you've got to get the oar locks right

00:22:54.641 --> 00:22:56.181
you know far enough apart to row.

00:22:57.901 --> 00:23:00.721
You know so the boats are quite a lot wider the

00:23:00.721 --> 00:23:03.641
10 cabins tend to be a bit higher you've got

00:23:03.641 --> 00:23:09.481
a lot more volume anyway even on the smallest of them and so the little ocean

00:23:09.481 --> 00:23:15.981
kayak kayaks trying to fit everything into such a small space and be able to

00:23:15.981 --> 00:23:22.581
get the paddler in you know things you know some things you you just have to move by,

00:23:23.780 --> 00:23:26.420
parts of an inch a few millimeters you know

00:23:26.420 --> 00:23:29.760
there might only be clearance for a time

00:23:29.760 --> 00:23:34.280
so when you're actually building it it's it's

00:23:34.280 --> 00:23:40.100
easier to do that those little adjustments than if you've done a design and

00:23:40.100 --> 00:23:45.440
and sent it off to someone else to build and then if you're in that process

00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:49.180
you know there's quite a lot of back and forth from the builder to the designer

00:23:49.180 --> 00:23:51.400
you know the builder coming back and saying,

00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:54.400
hmm, Rob, not sure I can fit this in here.

00:23:56.280 --> 00:23:59.180
Yeah, I imagine there's a lot of communication with the paddler as well.

00:23:59.900 --> 00:24:03.060
Absolutely. And that is really important.

00:24:03.600 --> 00:24:07.780
Sorry, I'll just backtrack one little thing. So the three boats,

00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:11.560
so I did Pete's boat, and then I did

00:24:11.560 --> 00:24:15.520
a double kayak for

00:24:15.520 --> 00:24:18.800
the Trans-Tasman crossing so that

00:24:18.800 --> 00:24:22.740
was two guys justin and james two australians who

00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:25.660
approached me and they wanted to do the crossing of

00:24:25.660 --> 00:24:34.600
the tasman sea from australia to new zealand and they previously done quite

00:24:34.600 --> 00:24:43.320
a few trips together various not big ocean stuff but various expeditions themselves,

00:24:43.800 --> 00:24:48.180
So from being school boys, you know, when they were quite young to school boys,

00:24:48.280 --> 00:24:50.180
they went all the way down the Murray River, I think.

00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:54.260
Okay. And then they did the Bass Strait crossing and they were pretty young.

00:24:54.420 --> 00:24:56.880
I mean, I can't remember how old they were when they did the Tasman,

00:24:57.020 --> 00:24:59.500
but in their 20s, you know, they were pretty young.

00:25:00.040 --> 00:25:04.020
But they'd done a lot of stuff together. So they wanted to do it as a double

00:25:04.020 --> 00:25:06.800
crossing, you know, a double kayak.

00:25:07.060 --> 00:25:10.780
Right. So that adds another level of complication.

00:25:12.080 --> 00:25:18.160
You've got two people and two people you know they have to be able to get around the boat,

00:25:18.740 --> 00:25:22.500
and you know if you've got a boat that is no no

00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:29.040
wider than three feet wide you know a narrow cabin and two cockpits you know

00:25:29.040 --> 00:25:32.780
just the logistics of getting in and out the cabin and getting from one cockpit

00:25:32.780 --> 00:25:37.580
to the other with two of you is actually quite tricky yeah that must have raised

00:25:37.580 --> 00:25:38.740
the complication quite a bit.

00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:45.060
Exactly. So, so we did, I did that boat. That was a successful crossing.

00:25:45.220 --> 00:25:50.020
They, they made that, they had a few, few hiccup and we had a few issues with

00:25:50.020 --> 00:25:51.480
that build I'll come back to.

00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:56.480
And then the other one I did was Cyril's one, so he paddled from, uh.

00:25:57.314 --> 00:26:02.054
California to hawaii in 2022 so i

00:26:02.054 --> 00:26:04.794
think you did an interview with him yes and he had

00:26:04.794 --> 00:26:07.474
there was a sort of full start on on that one he had

00:26:07.474 --> 00:26:10.634
he tried it the year before and so

00:26:10.634 --> 00:26:13.514
on but he successfully made it in 22 which was

00:26:13.514 --> 00:26:16.274
great and i was lucky enough to be out there to

00:26:16.274 --> 00:26:22.134
meet him which was fantastic so those are the three and he's he's currently

00:26:22.134 --> 00:26:30.154
on route to we we sort of went down to the canaries to do some pre-trip checks

00:26:30.154 --> 00:26:34.174
and tests and stuff and wave him off just before Christmas.

00:26:34.394 --> 00:26:36.674
Yeah, he's on route.

00:26:36.914 --> 00:26:40.814
Yeah, as we're recording this, he's about, think about 18 days in, 17 days in.

00:26:41.114 --> 00:26:46.094
Yeah, yeah, and he's not having an easy time of it, actually. Yeah.

00:26:46.674 --> 00:26:50.254
The weather patterns at the moment this year are

00:26:50.254 --> 00:26:53.494
really unusual and you know

00:26:53.494 --> 00:26:56.814
it's normally meant to be northeast trades

00:26:56.814 --> 00:27:03.274
so a sort of essentially downwind route down across to the Caribbean and you

00:27:03.274 --> 00:27:08.314
know a lot of the time he's had either southerlies or headwinds so he's it's

00:27:08.314 --> 00:27:13.854
there's a lot of strange weather patterns in the North Atlantic at the moment

00:27:13.854 --> 00:27:16.694
but hopefully that's settling down in,

00:27:17.634 --> 00:27:20.354
And he'll start to make a bit more progress.

00:27:20.654 --> 00:27:22.474
Yes. We'll continue to watch his progress.

00:27:23.034 --> 00:27:25.054
Yeah. Yeah. So...

00:27:26.481 --> 00:27:32.061
Communication with the builders. So the boat, the trans-Tasman boat,

00:27:32.301 --> 00:27:36.821
was built in Australia, so we designed it here.

00:27:37.281 --> 00:27:44.321
And actually, what I say is we, I've always, I've sort of worked with a small

00:27:44.321 --> 00:27:51.501
team for a long time, either on building boats or designing them.

00:27:51.681 --> 00:27:54.721
So there's a really good good friend Daniel

00:27:54.721 --> 00:27:57.881
Davey who's a he's a proper naval architect

00:27:57.881 --> 00:28:01.301
unlike me you know he's proper qualified naval

00:28:01.301 --> 00:28:04.061
architect and designs all sorts of

00:28:04.061 --> 00:28:06.921
things you know you know

00:28:06.921 --> 00:28:09.961
big ships to race boats and

00:28:09.961 --> 00:28:13.301
you know he's uh but he's has

00:28:13.301 --> 00:28:16.441
has always worked worked with me on the

00:28:16.441 --> 00:28:19.261
on some of the design aspects and certainly on some

00:28:19.261 --> 00:28:23.061
of the more complicated CAD stuff so so

00:28:23.061 --> 00:28:26.641
on Cyril's boat it was a full CAD

00:28:26.641 --> 00:28:29.861
design program and that and that's.

00:28:29.861 --> 00:28:32.981
Sort of beyond beyond a mere mortal like

00:28:32.981 --> 00:28:35.921
me when you get into software like

00:28:35.921 --> 00:28:38.681
Rhino and things it's unless you're using

00:28:38.681 --> 00:28:41.901
it every day it's just so complicated I can use

00:28:41.901 --> 00:28:45.161
it but Dan will do something in

00:28:45.161 --> 00:28:48.201
half an hour that it might take me a week to

00:28:48.201 --> 00:28:52.241
do okay so so there

00:28:52.241 --> 00:28:55.581
and another like another good

00:28:55.581 --> 00:28:59.061
friend ginge simon murphy we we

00:28:59.061 --> 00:29:01.861
worked on boat building projects for years

00:29:01.861 --> 00:29:05.081
in fact well i was at school with with simon so

00:29:05.081 --> 00:29:07.941
you know we go back that far and we've worked on

00:29:07.941 --> 00:29:14.261
lots of boat building projects so he's he's he's always worked on on the build

00:29:14.261 --> 00:29:21.261
when we've when we've done build projects together so we've got a lot of sort

00:29:21.261 --> 00:29:26.001
of group experience you know team experience that goes back years and years.

00:29:26.961 --> 00:29:35.061
So it's not it really is not just me say the on the trans-tasman boat we we

00:29:35.061 --> 00:29:40.701
actually sent the design out to Australia builder that Justin and James got

00:29:40.701 --> 00:29:43.021
out there who were good good guys,

00:29:44.684 --> 00:29:49.884
But one of the sort of issues they had when they finally had it and they were

00:29:49.884 --> 00:29:53.704
doing some test paddling is they sort of came back and said, yeah,

00:29:54.204 --> 00:29:57.724
you know, the boat's going okay, but it's got this sort of, it does seem to

00:29:57.724 --> 00:30:00.464
have this sort of roll, you know, when we're paddling it.

00:30:00.584 --> 00:30:05.444
It's sort of rolling from side to side quite a bit, more than we want.

00:30:06.484 --> 00:30:11.604
And, you know, we sort of spent a lot of time talking to them about this and whatever.

00:30:12.204 --> 00:30:17.104
And I eventually went out to Australia to have a look at the boat.

00:30:19.604 --> 00:30:23.284
And I sort of got there and there was

00:30:23.284 --> 00:30:26.024
a section yeah we looked at

00:30:26.024 --> 00:30:28.904
the boat we had for a paddle and yes it was sort of rolling

00:30:28.904 --> 00:30:32.104
quite a lot and there was a section of

00:30:32.104 --> 00:30:35.244
the deck in their garage

00:30:35.244 --> 00:30:38.124
that they cut out where the hatch was and I

00:30:38.124 --> 00:30:41.084
sort of looked at that thought well this is this seems

00:30:41.084 --> 00:30:44.004
to be uh did this come out of the boat and they

00:30:44.004 --> 00:30:48.604
said yeah and i said well it's that's massively heavy

00:30:48.604 --> 00:30:51.324
you know that is really a lot

00:30:51.324 --> 00:30:54.444
thicker and and there's more laminate

00:30:54.444 --> 00:30:59.424
on that it just it's the whole boat built of this you know it's the cabin and

00:30:59.424 --> 00:31:04.964
they said yeah yeah the builders so i sort of looked at and thought no you know

00:31:04.964 --> 00:31:12.044
it was like at least 50 percent no probably more than we'd expect way more okay,

00:31:13.004 --> 00:31:16.624
and there was a sort of I think what happened there was a sort of chain of events

00:31:16.624 --> 00:31:21.524
that would come down so we'd sent stuff out there they'd looked at it they've

00:31:21.524 --> 00:31:26.844
you know and they I think the builders had just thought oh god this is yeah

00:31:26.844 --> 00:31:32.224
this is a trans-ocean boat you know needs to be stronger than that so they'd upped.

00:31:33.387 --> 00:31:36.687
Some spec okay and then their suppliers

00:31:36.687 --> 00:31:39.947
then they were buying materials from their

00:31:39.947 --> 00:31:43.007
suppliers and their suppliers had done the same thing

00:31:43.007 --> 00:31:45.927
they sort of said you know oh

00:31:45.927 --> 00:31:48.867
you want 200 gram carbon do you for that

00:31:48.867 --> 00:31:52.047
oh well look we've got i tell

00:31:52.047 --> 00:31:55.667
you we've got 300 here smart you know that it's

00:31:55.667 --> 00:31:58.487
not going to add a lot to the weight but we've got a good

00:31:58.487 --> 00:32:01.887
supply of 300 gram so so the

00:32:01.887 --> 00:32:05.227
builders up the spec and then the suppliers sort

00:32:05.227 --> 00:32:11.127
of up the spec and then they they got a core we built it with a you know respect

00:32:11.127 --> 00:32:18.067
it with a like a two mil core in there and i think they put a 12 mil core in

00:32:18.067 --> 00:32:24.627
just keep getting top heavier and then because it's a thick core you can't bend it.

00:32:25.847 --> 00:32:28.707
So it's a cut core you know curve

00:32:28.707 --> 00:32:33.407
so the the core has knife cuts so when she saw cuts through it so it will bend

00:32:33.407 --> 00:32:39.427
around a compound curve but when you do that you fill what is a lightweight

00:32:39.427 --> 00:32:46.027
like foam core you fill all the cuts up with what is actually fairly heavy resin paste,

00:32:47.107 --> 00:32:52.947
you know so the core instead of weighing virtually nothing actually ends up

00:32:52.947 --> 00:32:56.867
being really quite heavy and then they got uh,

00:32:58.584 --> 00:33:07.304
The electrics on it were done by a couple of guys who did fishing boat electrics.

00:33:08.164 --> 00:33:17.404
And they were really good quality stuff, but it was all in these really solid

00:33:17.404 --> 00:33:20.024
sort of waterproof boxes,

00:33:20.824 --> 00:33:24.684
that were all bolted to the cabin roof inside.

00:33:24.804 --> 00:33:31.584
So they're super watertight, super strong, and super heavy you know so there's

00:33:31.584 --> 00:33:34.384
all this weight up on the top of the cabin.

00:33:35.264 --> 00:33:42.784
And the and the boat is way heavier and the you know most of the surface area

00:33:42.784 --> 00:33:47.864
is is quite high up because of the cabin and everything so the whole center

00:33:47.864 --> 00:33:51.484
of gravity of the boat is was way up,

00:33:52.204 --> 00:33:58.644
which was the role so we had to do uh we reshaped the side of the hull put some foam,

00:33:59.184 --> 00:34:02.204
on and reshaped i sort of did that with dan over

00:34:02.204 --> 00:34:05.004
the phone and he did the

00:34:05.004 --> 00:34:08.124
he did the computer work and sent us some templates

00:34:08.124 --> 00:34:11.324
and we put the foam on and cut it and made

00:34:11.324 --> 00:34:14.164
these sort of sort of sponsons if you like that on the side

00:34:14.164 --> 00:34:16.864
of the hull made the hull a little bit wider not not a lot

00:34:16.864 --> 00:34:19.864
a few inches each side and sorted problem sorted

00:34:19.864 --> 00:34:22.644
we don't know but

00:34:22.644 --> 00:34:25.764
that was that's what i mean that the sort of communication thing unless

00:34:25.764 --> 00:34:28.364
you know it can go wrong and that

00:34:28.364 --> 00:34:32.204
was one thing i learned a lot on that project so when

00:34:32.204 --> 00:34:35.984
you build a boat like that do you often have

00:34:35.984 --> 00:34:39.404
to build multiple boats to get to the right one no i've

00:34:39.404 --> 00:34:42.284
never done that okay no they're always

00:34:42.284 --> 00:34:48.924
they've always they have always worked fingers crossed yep no but they are they

00:34:48.924 --> 00:34:54.824
are iterations okay if you like you know each boat you learn something from

00:34:54.824 --> 00:35:01.364
it so the next one you think oh okay i could you know there are things we could change on that.

00:35:02.590 --> 00:35:08.990
Next time. But each boat has worked nicely, but I think, but each boat is an

00:35:08.990 --> 00:35:10.450
improvement on the previous one.

00:35:10.770 --> 00:35:15.410
So it was Cyril's boat, Valentine, that he paddled from California to Hawaii.

00:35:15.690 --> 00:35:17.730
He's paddling the same boat now across the Atlantic?

00:35:18.410 --> 00:35:22.690
He is. Yeah. Okay. Did you make changes between the two trips?

00:35:23.570 --> 00:35:28.330
Uh, not a lot, actually. No, no fundamental changes. Okay.

00:35:28.830 --> 00:35:31.650
One thing that Cyril did most of these

00:35:31.650 --> 00:35:35.150
actually because he the boat was in california with

00:35:35.150 --> 00:35:37.850
him at one point i was going to go

00:35:37.850 --> 00:35:40.650
out there but that didn't didn't come

00:35:40.650 --> 00:35:44.530
off but it was really some couple of

00:35:44.530 --> 00:35:48.010
couple of sort of repairs small repairs couple

00:35:48.010 --> 00:35:51.990
of changing a few things and then replacement

00:35:51.990 --> 00:35:56.050
and upgrading of equipment really so he

00:35:56.050 --> 00:35:58.770
one of one of the things he did change was the

00:35:58.770 --> 00:36:02.030
rudder tubes for the rudder lines that

00:36:02.030 --> 00:36:08.910
was one of the issues we had on the his first crossing yes was we put hydraulic

00:36:08.910 --> 00:36:16.170
tubing it basically is what it what it was just like a six mil nylon tube through

00:36:16.170 --> 00:36:20.030
that that takes the run the lines from the cockpit back to the rudder.

00:36:20.290 --> 00:36:25.090
It runs in just like a single run through the cabin and through the bulkheads,

00:36:25.390 --> 00:36:28.530
comes out at the back, take the rudder lines.

00:36:28.650 --> 00:36:33.610
In fact, there are two on each side because there's a hand steering and foot steering.

00:36:35.010 --> 00:36:41.650
And the issue he had with that was there was...

00:36:42.867 --> 00:36:49.007
A small leak on one of the tubes where it, where it exited the stern deck.

00:36:49.967 --> 00:36:54.447
And it, it had somewhere, I think on the first,

00:36:54.907 --> 00:37:00.927
cause he'd had the boat for a year, the adhesion of the epoxy to the nylon,

00:37:01.147 --> 00:37:06.007
as it went through the little bulkhead of that had, had just pulled and the

00:37:06.007 --> 00:37:09.827
tube, what the tube was all still in place because that was one of when,

00:37:09.927 --> 00:37:12.907
when he had that sort of little leak into the aft compartment,

00:37:13.127 --> 00:37:14.967
which was a little small sealed compartment.

00:37:15.827 --> 00:37:20.687
He'd looked and there was no obvious, you know, like the tube hadn't pulled out or anything.

00:37:20.987 --> 00:37:24.387
But I think it had just, the seal had just broken.

00:37:24.587 --> 00:37:29.727
So there was a very small amount of water capillarying through that,

00:37:30.227 --> 00:37:34.167
through the seal, like a little tiny drop every now and again,

00:37:34.167 --> 00:37:37.087
pillaring through but over a period of

00:37:37.087 --> 00:37:40.527
you know five seven days they actually

00:37:40.527 --> 00:37:43.207
ended up with a reasonable amount of water in that

00:37:43.207 --> 00:37:47.387
half compartment which then he

00:37:47.387 --> 00:37:51.527
had all the issues of getting the water out right and so

00:37:51.527 --> 00:37:54.427
on and at the time of course when

00:37:54.427 --> 00:37:58.047
he discovered it we really didn't know whether

00:37:58.047 --> 00:38:01.887
it was a serious leak as in a hole or you

00:38:01.887 --> 00:38:05.147
know we didn't know how fast the water was coming in and and

00:38:05.147 --> 00:38:08.947
cyril couldn't assess that so you

00:38:08.947 --> 00:38:11.707
know we had we were the concern was that

00:38:11.707 --> 00:38:15.567
there was you know a significant hole the reality

00:38:15.567 --> 00:38:19.007
was that actually once it's bailed out which he

00:38:19.007 --> 00:38:21.987
did manage to do and was very innovative about doing that

00:38:21.987 --> 00:38:24.727
you didn't have

00:38:24.727 --> 00:38:31.007
to fix it because it only came in very very slowly and only came in under certain

00:38:31.007 --> 00:38:36.347
conditions when the boat was under sort a sea anchor when it was rough and the

00:38:36.347 --> 00:38:41.987
water was sort of essentially washing over that stern part of the boat continuously.

00:38:42.667 --> 00:38:47.807
So it was sort of underwater most of the time and then it seems to sort of drip

00:38:47.807 --> 00:38:53.607
in slowly but once it was there he could just empty that out every few days

00:38:53.607 --> 00:38:59.607
it was fine but that was so so he replaced all those tubes there with a with

00:38:59.607 --> 00:39:02.067
a composite tube through,

00:39:03.329 --> 00:39:08.009
And the nylon had stretched slightly, so that it was slightly looped.

00:39:08.129 --> 00:39:13.329
And I hadn't realized that that was something that it would do over time.

00:39:15.489 --> 00:39:25.149
So the cabling, the rudder cables obviously need to run in a nice clean line to reduce any friction.

00:39:26.109 --> 00:39:30.709
And because the rudder tubes were slightly looped because they'd stretched lightly,

00:39:30.709 --> 00:39:33.469
there was there was a degree of friction in the

00:39:33.469 --> 00:39:37.529
tube which made the steering harder so i

00:39:37.529 --> 00:39:40.589
think we've i think that's been resolved he's sort

00:39:40.589 --> 00:39:44.289
of re replaced the water maker the water

00:39:44.289 --> 00:39:47.269
maker is an issue actually i have this the water

00:39:47.269 --> 00:39:55.049
makers are always an issue for me he has two water makers one is one that runs

00:39:55.049 --> 00:40:01.389
off an electric motor so it's they're catadyne they they're basically there

00:40:01.389 --> 00:40:05.689
aren't many water makers around in the world small ones anyway that you could put in.

00:40:06.329 --> 00:40:09.069
A kayak it's basically the same one

00:40:09.069 --> 00:40:11.969
that all the rowers use them you know

00:40:11.969 --> 00:40:14.729
every rowing boat has the same same one in it

00:40:14.729 --> 00:40:17.469
same model most of the other

00:40:17.469 --> 00:40:20.729
trans ocean kayaks use the same same

00:40:20.729 --> 00:40:23.469
model i think so it

00:40:23.469 --> 00:40:27.169
has an electric motor that powers the uh the reverse

00:40:27.169 --> 00:40:30.069
osmosis system for making the water

00:40:30.069 --> 00:40:34.569
right and cyril's one

00:40:34.569 --> 00:40:37.649
on his first crossing the electric motor

00:40:37.649 --> 00:40:42.569
packed up after about a week unfortunately i

00:40:42.569 --> 00:40:49.029
mean it was it was the same one that he'd had previously so it wasn't a brand

00:40:49.029 --> 00:41:00.569
new one but luckily he has a manual backup pump as well so he used that the whole time.

00:41:01.309 --> 00:41:10.329
So this one is a new one refitted, they're new electrics, well not all electrics but new batteries.

00:41:11.764 --> 00:41:17.884
And some switching just to make sure everything is going.

00:41:18.064 --> 00:41:26.524
So hopefully the watermaker will just carry on working, but it's something I do.

00:41:27.444 --> 00:41:32.604
It should be possible to make, it is possible to make a waterproof electric

00:41:32.604 --> 00:41:36.164
motor these days, like 100% waterproof.

00:41:36.444 --> 00:41:40.284
It should be able to run underwater. is and

00:41:40.284 --> 00:41:43.544
not these these water makers don't have

00:41:43.544 --> 00:41:46.604
you know they're the electric motors aren't

00:41:46.604 --> 00:41:50.244
waterproof so you know water

00:41:50.244 --> 00:41:53.784
in a small kayak is a pretty inevitable thing right

00:41:53.784 --> 00:41:57.324
so try trying to you

00:41:57.324 --> 00:42:01.844
know fit and locate them where they

00:42:01.844 --> 00:42:05.084
will work and they won't get damp is is

00:42:05.084 --> 00:42:08.084
a major issue yeah there's some pretty unique design

00:42:08.084 --> 00:42:10.784
design considerations that you have to think about with

00:42:10.784 --> 00:42:14.464
a boat like this that you wouldn't necessarily think about with another you

00:42:14.464 --> 00:42:18.104
know regular i'll call it a regular kayak oh yeah

00:42:18.104 --> 00:42:23.384
yeah no yes you're trying to fit i mean things like i mean the watermaker is

00:42:23.384 --> 00:42:28.024
quite you know it's a relatively big thing and it weighs like 11 kilos okay

00:42:28.024 --> 00:42:32.664
you know so you've got to put it on the bottom of the boat you can't stick it

00:42:32.664 --> 00:42:36.404
up you can't you know you can't stick it up on the cabin top,

00:42:36.944 --> 00:42:41.964
you know, that would really significantly affect the stability of the boat.

00:42:42.164 --> 00:42:45.864
So, so it has to, you know, it has to go down in the bilges.

00:42:46.444 --> 00:42:49.924
So, you know, it's, it's going to,

00:42:50.104 --> 00:42:53.164
there is the danger of it being damp in there,

00:42:53.304 --> 00:42:57.084
you know, so you have to have a sealed compartment for

00:42:57.084 --> 00:43:00.264
it and you have to be able to access that

00:43:00.264 --> 00:43:03.064
and you have to make sure you can clean it and you have to be able to access it

00:43:03.064 --> 00:43:06.084
to pump it and so on so

00:43:06.084 --> 00:43:08.964
i mean cyril's boat you know

00:43:08.964 --> 00:43:12.644
it's a tiny tiny little kayak but it's got

00:43:12.644 --> 00:43:16.564
i think 12 separate watertight

00:43:16.564 --> 00:43:19.684
compartments in it most of

00:43:19.684 --> 00:43:22.584
which not all of them actually but a lot

00:43:22.584 --> 00:43:25.784
of them are pumped as in there's a bilge pump okay

00:43:25.784 --> 00:43:28.724
so you can with a

00:43:28.724 --> 00:43:33.424
manifold so there's pumping to each compartment and

00:43:33.424 --> 00:43:40.084
you can't you can't just have a pump and then lots of feeds to different compartments

00:43:40.084 --> 00:43:46.204
and then try and then expect to be able to pump them because what will happen

00:43:46.204 --> 00:43:52.904
is the pump will just draw from the compartment that has the least resistance in it.

00:43:53.224 --> 00:43:56.764
So if you've got a compartment full of water and a compartment full of air.

00:43:57.524 --> 00:44:00.864
It will just pump the air. It won't pump the water.

00:44:01.064 --> 00:44:08.404
So you have to have a switching system so that you pump each compartment separately,

00:44:09.775 --> 00:44:15.755
from the others individually so you can't pump two at once well you could pump

00:44:15.755 --> 00:44:20.175
two at once if they're both full of water but as soon as one gets empty it won't

00:44:20.175 --> 00:44:22.075
pump the one with the water in,

00:44:23.035 --> 00:44:28.695
you know so you have to have this quite a sort of complicated manifold system so you can pump,

00:44:29.715 --> 00:44:32.935
compartments separately and then are there is there redundancy built

00:44:32.935 --> 00:44:36.275
in with redundant pumps like you mentioned the the water

00:44:36.275 --> 00:44:39.015
maker you have a electric water maker and then you have a

00:44:39.015 --> 00:44:42.015
backup manual watermaker you also have backup manual pumps

00:44:42.015 --> 00:44:46.095
i'm guessing as well redundancy is

00:44:46.095 --> 00:44:49.895
the key to the whole thing every single

00:44:49.895 --> 00:44:53.835
important thing on on this has

00:44:53.835 --> 00:44:57.315
a backup so the watermaker's

00:44:57.315 --> 00:45:00.215
got in fact the watermaker's got three backup there's

00:45:00.215 --> 00:45:03.495
a the watermaker itself has a

00:45:03.495 --> 00:45:06.735
manual backup to that and the power

00:45:06.735 --> 00:45:13.575
water maker you can actually convert it to a manual one if you want but it is

00:45:13.575 --> 00:45:18.815
quite a long-winded and complicated process but you could do that if you and

00:45:18.815 --> 00:45:25.075
so Cyril has the tools and equipment to be able to do that so essentially he's got three water makers.

00:45:26.715 --> 00:45:30.495
Pumps there are four I think so

00:45:30.495 --> 00:45:33.475
there are two manual pumps there's a manual pump in

00:45:33.475 --> 00:45:37.235
the cockpit manual pump in the cabin electric

00:45:37.235 --> 00:45:39.895
pump in the cockpit and then there's a

00:45:39.895 --> 00:45:42.835
separate portable manual pump which he carries

00:45:42.835 --> 00:45:48.775
in the cabin as well so there's you know there's a lot of redundancy there the

00:45:48.775 --> 00:45:53.775
electrics are quite complex but there's a lot of redundancy in that so there's

00:45:53.775 --> 00:46:00.915
there are two solar panels and they're cost on this on cyril's boat they're custom made panels as a

00:46:01.095 --> 00:46:09.155
You get GB sole that make panels exactly to the shape and size that you want them.

00:46:09.575 --> 00:46:15.555
Again, because the kayak is a very small thing. There's very little space on

00:46:15.555 --> 00:46:17.135
the deck to put solar panels.

00:46:17.815 --> 00:46:26.675
So that was one of the design criteria in the first place, was to design the

00:46:26.675 --> 00:46:29.515
deck with some flat panels.

00:46:30.517 --> 00:46:34.737
Clear space to incorporate solar panels because

00:46:34.737 --> 00:46:40.297
you have to have enough area to get a reasonable amount of charge so there's

00:46:40.297 --> 00:46:46.417
a couple of solar panels i think they're 100 watt and 170 watt then there are

00:46:46.417 --> 00:46:53.957
two batteries they go through each panel has a controller mppt controller,

00:46:54.757 --> 00:46:57.957
and then each controller has

00:46:57.957 --> 00:47:00.937
a battery management system so this is

00:47:00.937 --> 00:47:04.997
just going to the batteries and within that system we

00:47:04.997 --> 00:47:10.517
can change or Cyril can change so he can charge both batteries off one panel

00:47:10.517 --> 00:47:17.177
he could charge each battery separately off each individual panel and you could

00:47:17.177 --> 00:47:22.297
reverse those so the forward panel can charge one battery or it could charge the other one etc.

00:47:24.117 --> 00:47:26.957
Each MPPT controller could be

00:47:26.957 --> 00:47:30.857
swapped so if one goes down you

00:47:30.857 --> 00:47:33.997
can run each solar panel off

00:47:33.997 --> 00:47:37.317
the other one and each management system

00:47:37.317 --> 00:47:40.817
for the batteries is also

00:47:40.817 --> 00:47:44.517
swappable so you could swap one out and

00:47:44.517 --> 00:47:48.197
use it to charge the other batteries so you

00:47:48.197 --> 00:47:51.477
could have one battery down

00:47:51.477 --> 00:47:55.577
one solar panel down one mppt

00:47:55.577 --> 00:47:58.277
down and one controller down which is

00:47:58.277 --> 00:48:01.497
all very unlikely that any of those fail but

00:48:01.497 --> 00:48:04.917
each one of those could fail and there's still a

00:48:04.917 --> 00:48:08.117
completely workable fully functional electrical

00:48:08.117 --> 00:48:11.297
system on it and that

00:48:11.297 --> 00:48:15.537
is actually quite complicated to do absolutely but

00:48:15.537 --> 00:48:21.717
it's it's important you can't now if you have a twin battery system and only

00:48:21.717 --> 00:48:26.917
a single controller or a single panel you know there's no point having twin

00:48:26.917 --> 00:48:31.377
batteries because as soon as the one of the controllers if the controller goes

00:48:31.377 --> 00:48:33.797
down you can't charge either of the batteries so.

00:48:35.797 --> 00:48:38.717
Yeah so redundancy in pretty well everything

00:48:38.717 --> 00:48:42.977
i mean it's got two obviously

00:48:42.977 --> 00:48:48.417
he's got a couple of paddles the boat has the hobie drive i think you you talk

00:48:48.417 --> 00:48:52.457
to him about that which is the sort of you you essentially pedal it with your

00:48:52.457 --> 00:48:59.257
feet right so there's two there's two of those plus some spares to repair that system.

00:49:02.037 --> 00:49:06.117
There's redundancy on the electronics as well.

00:49:06.337 --> 00:49:15.997
There's a sort of fixed VHF, GPS chart plotter system which has AIS in it and

00:49:15.997 --> 00:49:19.777
there's a separate portable VHF.

00:49:19.937 --> 00:49:25.937
There's also a VHF with AIS on that so that one of those could go down.

00:49:27.861 --> 00:49:34.341
Yeah, there's the EPIRB system and the SAMP phone, SAMP communication system,

00:49:34.561 --> 00:49:37.001
you know, for emergencies.

00:49:37.461 --> 00:49:40.121
And there, that's all sort of doubled up as well.

00:49:40.641 --> 00:49:45.561
So there's extra, so there's a lot of redundant, everything pretty well.

00:49:45.641 --> 00:49:50.081
Anything that's vital is pretty well doubled up.

00:49:50.481 --> 00:49:52.401
So with all the specialized items

00:49:52.401 --> 00:49:55.741
that are in a boat like this and the redundancies that are built into it,

00:49:55.741 --> 00:50:00.881
what normal because i'll call it a normal item might paddlers be surprised to

00:50:00.881 --> 00:50:05.541
find in one of these types of boats that they can also find in their local shop.

00:50:07.781 --> 00:50:16.841
Oh i think you know the paddles are pretty standard the the sort of paddling

00:50:16.841 --> 00:50:21.861
equipment that Cyril uses, you know, clothes, kags,

00:50:22.641 --> 00:50:26.001
hats, you know, all that stuff is all pretty standard.

00:50:26.241 --> 00:50:30.201
I mean, the Hobie Drive is a standard off-the-shelf item. Okay.

00:50:30.601 --> 00:50:36.661
You just buy, you know, they make loads of, you could just buy that unit.

00:50:36.861 --> 00:50:44.161
I mean, they were very cooperative with us in terms of helping us make sure

00:50:44.161 --> 00:50:49.501
we could fit it in the boat, which was a bit, just fitting the drive system

00:50:49.501 --> 00:50:51.301
into it was quite a challenge.

00:50:51.461 --> 00:50:57.761
I bet. Because the ergonomics are completely different. So when you're paddling,

00:50:58.121 --> 00:50:59.921
you're sat reasonably upright.

00:51:00.761 --> 00:51:03.901
You know, your feet are low down in the cockpit.

00:51:04.201 --> 00:51:09.861
And in this case, you had foot pedals for the rudder, which would be pretty

00:51:09.861 --> 00:51:15.101
similar to a, you know, there's a lot of standard sea kayaks with rudders and foot pedals.

00:51:15.461 --> 00:51:21.681
So that's quite conventional, most kayakers would recognize that.

00:51:22.061 --> 00:51:29.881
But when you're using the pedal system, your feet are obviously a lot higher because it's.

00:51:31.507 --> 00:51:34.967
The pedals are on arms up if you like so

00:51:34.967 --> 00:51:38.347
and then you you have you're sat you're sat

00:51:38.347 --> 00:51:41.127
lent much further back you know so

00:51:41.127 --> 00:51:43.987
you're leaning back with your feet up sort of

00:51:43.987 --> 00:51:47.307
or not quite chest height but right so

00:51:47.307 --> 00:51:54.067
like a recumbent bicycle sort of yeah exactly so that actually means the cockpit

00:51:54.067 --> 00:52:04.087
It becomes quite complicated to design to incorporate both things and fit it into a little space.

00:52:04.987 --> 00:52:12.847
But that has, you know, it's not impossible, but it just means that you can't

00:52:12.847 --> 00:52:14.427
use a conventional spray deck.

00:52:14.867 --> 00:52:19.007
Right. Because your feet are up, you know, where the spray deck would normally

00:52:19.007 --> 00:52:21.007
be, your feet would be above it.

00:52:22.927 --> 00:52:28.527
So so in fact cyril doesn't really use a spray deck we did make we did make

00:52:28.527 --> 00:52:34.047
spray decks and and so on for it but he found on the on the hawaii crossing

00:52:34.047 --> 00:52:35.587
that he didn't really use it and,

00:52:36.587 --> 00:52:41.747
the cockpit volume is pretty small so even if it it gets water in it can be

00:52:41.747 --> 00:52:50.007
pumped out quite easily and he's got some like fabric side protectors like dodgers

00:52:50.007 --> 00:52:52.627
down the side that when he's,

00:52:52.747 --> 00:52:58.167
particularly when he's peddling that he can have those in place and that protects

00:52:58.167 --> 00:53:01.047
him from any sort of waves coming in from the side.

00:53:01.327 --> 00:53:06.907
So the cockpit itself is quite a protected environment.

00:53:09.167 --> 00:53:16.267
Which is, I think, which is, I mean And which is why I quite favor like a stern

00:53:16.267 --> 00:53:18.547
cabin configuration for these boats.

00:53:18.807 --> 00:53:21.787
All of my, well, all of them, there's only three.

00:53:22.887 --> 00:53:28.087
You know, it's not like it's an extensive design portfolio, you know,

00:53:28.287 --> 00:53:34.187
but the three that I have designed have all had stern cabins on them.

00:53:36.180 --> 00:53:43.020
And I sort of quite favour that from the point of view of protection for the paddler.

00:53:43.180 --> 00:53:47.000
So you're sat in the cockpit and the cabin is behind you. Okay.

00:53:47.420 --> 00:53:55.260
And most of these crossings sort of by default are really essentially downwind crossings.

00:53:55.600 --> 00:54:01.560
You know, most of the time the weather is from behind you, the waves will be

00:54:01.560 --> 00:54:02.680
from behind you and so on.

00:54:02.680 --> 00:54:09.580
So that gives that means the paddler is quite protected so any waves coming

00:54:09.580 --> 00:54:16.600
up behind have to come over the cabin you know to get you it helps the paddler

00:54:16.600 --> 00:54:19.140
but it gives you quite a psychological.

00:54:19.940 --> 00:54:26.660
Protection as well if you like you're in a quite a nice protected little environment in your cockpit,

00:54:27.260 --> 00:54:30.060
and and i've talked a lot to cyril about this and

00:54:30.060 --> 00:54:33.620
he's you know that's he he says he he gets

00:54:33.620 --> 00:54:36.420
out and he gets into the cockpit and the you know

00:54:36.420 --> 00:54:39.500
he's he's even when he's paddling he's

00:54:39.500 --> 00:54:42.560
almost leaning against the the main hatch

00:54:42.560 --> 00:54:45.500
into the cabin uh his head is the

00:54:45.500 --> 00:54:48.660
top of the cabin is a sort of head level you

00:54:48.660 --> 00:54:52.520
know so and then he's got side screens there and

00:54:52.520 --> 00:54:55.600
he said you know when he's paddling even

00:54:55.600 --> 00:54:58.460
when it's you know it's quite rough and it's quite

00:54:58.460 --> 00:55:03.700
windy you know you can hear waves crashing the boat and occasionally there'll

00:55:03.700 --> 00:55:09.520
be some some water over or some spray over but where he is he's in this little

00:55:09.520 --> 00:55:16.580
little protected space so he's he sort of feels quite protected paddling,

00:55:17.806 --> 00:55:24.786
And I think if you've got a forward cabin, which there are a lot of advantages

00:55:24.786 --> 00:55:26.146
to having a forward cabin,

00:55:26.326 --> 00:55:32.846
but the few boats I've seen, people have always then put up some sort of fabric

00:55:32.846 --> 00:55:39.106
protector behind them to try and keep the weather off. So why not use the boat instead?

00:55:40.366 --> 00:55:44.566
Yeah. I mean, there are some downsides. You have to try.

00:55:45.086 --> 00:55:48.786
There's a lot more windage at the back. of the boat with the cabin.

00:55:49.046 --> 00:55:58.246
So if you're getting a crosswind rather than a stern wind, it's trying to blow the stern off.

00:55:58.386 --> 00:56:04.906
In other words, what is quite often a usual kayaking problem with you're paddling

00:56:04.906 --> 00:56:09.066
with a crosswind, the bow is trying to head up into wind.

00:56:10.866 --> 00:56:18.286
So we tried to counteract that by the shape of the hull it's much deeper at

00:56:18.286 --> 00:56:24.006
the stern there's much more lateral resistance on the hull at the stern of the

00:56:24.006 --> 00:56:30.586
boat and it's got quite a large under stern rudder on it which adds more,

00:56:31.226 --> 00:56:35.826
lateral resistance and we do have a dagger board on the boat so that you can

00:56:35.826 --> 00:56:38.166
raise and lower that to adjust,

00:56:38.806 --> 00:56:41.666
essentially adjust the lateral resistance so that the boat

00:56:41.666 --> 00:56:45.086
stays reasonably neutral in a crosswind which

00:56:45.086 --> 00:56:48.406
it does seem to do but you have

00:56:48.406 --> 00:56:53.466
to incorporate that if you didn't do that then the boat would be pretty unmanageable

00:56:53.466 --> 00:56:57.886
in a crosswind some fascinating design considerations that go into uh into these

00:56:57.886 --> 00:57:03.066
kinds of boats what's uh what's your material of choice well carbon fiber really

00:57:03.066 --> 00:57:07.306
yeah i think they've all been carbon,

00:57:08.759 --> 00:57:16.279
They've all been quite high-tech already. Epoxy, carbon, sandwich construction, either foam core.

00:57:16.759 --> 00:57:22.559
On Cyril's boat, we used a cork core, which is a great material, actually.

00:57:24.359 --> 00:57:35.559
And vacuum-bagged. So Cyril's boat is all carbon laminate, carbon inside and outside of a cork core.

00:57:35.559 --> 00:57:41.139
And it's vacuum bagged, vacuum consolidated, and heat cured.

00:57:42.099 --> 00:57:49.199
So it's a reasonably high spec construction. How long did it take to build?

00:57:49.919 --> 00:57:53.779
About three months. Okay. Not long.

00:57:54.539 --> 00:58:02.459
There's quite a lot of preparation before, so getting materials in place and all that sort of thing.

00:58:02.459 --> 00:58:05.979
But the actual build time for

00:58:05.979 --> 00:58:08.859
most of it was was three months and

00:58:08.859 --> 00:58:13.399
then there was a bit of fiddling about so

00:58:13.399 --> 00:58:16.459
we actually unfortunately we we built it

00:58:16.459 --> 00:58:20.519
just as the run-up to covid started so

00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:24.039
there was a complications we were

00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:27.879
hoping that cyril would join us towards the

00:58:27.879 --> 00:58:30.939
end of the build so he'd spend some time with

00:58:30.939 --> 00:58:34.879
us and so on testing here

00:58:34.879 --> 00:58:41.379
before we shipped the boat and and doing any mods and so on but we actually

00:58:41.379 --> 00:58:46.719
pretty well finished most of the main build and the installation of all the

00:58:46.719 --> 00:58:52.879
equipment and that sort of thing literally two days before we had lockdown in the UK.

00:58:53.259 --> 00:59:01.999
Oh, wow. So the boat was then in the yard where we built it in the shed, as it were.

00:59:03.142 --> 00:59:07.442
It was just, it was in there literally under lock and key for three months.

00:59:07.642 --> 00:59:15.842
We had no access to it, you know, so that messed up the first crossing completely.

00:59:16.102 --> 00:59:24.982
We couldn't ship the boat out until July or August instead of March.

00:59:25.162 --> 00:59:31.242
And what does that boat weigh before you add all the electronics and all the other things? Ah, yeah.

00:59:31.682 --> 00:59:37.822
I thought you were going to ask something. I did do some little bit of checking on that.

00:59:38.642 --> 00:59:42.722
I'm pretty sure that the bare structure of the boat.

00:59:42.862 --> 00:59:51.602
So there's hull, deck, cabin, the cockpit, all the various bulkheads.

00:59:51.602 --> 00:59:54.442
Right inside there's lots of bulkheads there's a

00:59:54.442 --> 00:59:57.382
like a bunk top there's quite a lot of internal

00:59:57.382 --> 01:00:00.322
structure as well that was all about

01:00:00.322 --> 01:00:03.102
75 kilos okay yeah it's

01:00:03.102 --> 01:00:05.862
not not super light but certainly not heavy i

01:00:05.862 --> 01:00:08.962
mean two of us could pick it up once you started adding

01:00:08.962 --> 01:00:12.762
the equipment so the batteries the.

01:00:12.762 --> 01:00:15.722
Electrics the solar panels the bilge pumps

01:00:15.722 --> 01:00:18.702
various fittings the

01:00:18.702 --> 01:00:21.702
rudder you know all that stuff it

01:00:21.702 --> 01:00:25.362
was it was 210 kilos and then

01:00:25.362 --> 01:00:28.322
you add the paddler so

01:00:28.322 --> 01:00:31.502
cyril's about 75 so it's so the

01:00:31.502 --> 01:00:34.742
the bare structure all the gear and equipment and the

01:00:34.742 --> 01:00:37.722
paddler was 285 kilos

01:00:37.722 --> 01:00:41.682
okay and and then you've then

01:00:41.682 --> 01:00:44.782
you've got to take all the additional stuff

01:00:44.782 --> 01:00:48.602
like food water cyril's clothes all

01:00:48.602 --> 01:00:51.542
that sort of portable equipment that you might take

01:00:51.542 --> 01:00:54.622
on paddles that you know that sort

01:00:54.622 --> 01:01:02.802
of thing that that puts it up to 500 kilos wow so it's design waterline where

01:01:02.802 --> 01:01:09.582
and where cyril left both times i mean pretty well when he left the canaries

01:01:09.582 --> 01:01:13.782
just now it was at about 500 kilos.

01:01:15.062 --> 01:01:18.922
Possibly maybe 510 but you

01:01:18.922 --> 01:01:22.322
know that's it give or take so you

01:01:22.322 --> 01:01:25.342
know you go from a bare structure

01:01:25.342 --> 01:01:33.082
at 75 kilos and the finished boat that's in the water leaving with the paddler

01:01:33.082 --> 01:01:37.382
and everything on is 500 kilos yeah so when you do your tests do you do them

01:01:37.382 --> 01:01:41.202
at at 500 kilos you load them full so you have an understanding of how it's

01:01:41.202 --> 01:01:42.822
going to paddle. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

01:01:43.262 --> 01:01:48.362
We did a whole bunch of different sort of tests of different weights.

01:01:49.162 --> 01:01:51.202
But really when we're doing...

01:01:52.889 --> 01:01:58.349
You know, there's like sea trials, if you like, and stability tests and that

01:01:58.349 --> 01:02:00.429
sort of thing and self-writing tests and everything.

01:02:01.209 --> 01:02:11.129
We put additional weights in the boat, try and make it pretty much as it would be for Cyril.

01:02:11.269 --> 01:02:15.029
So we did, actually, that's one of the bits I really enjoyed the most,

01:02:15.209 --> 01:02:16.789
actually, was the testing.

01:02:17.369 --> 01:02:23.889
So unfortunately, we didn't do it here with Cyril because we started doing the

01:02:23.889 --> 01:02:29.789
testing when we could get the boat out again and we were out of full lockdown,

01:02:29.789 --> 01:02:31.769
but there was all that travel restriction.

01:02:32.009 --> 01:02:34.749
You couldn't fly anywhere.

01:02:35.429 --> 01:02:39.589
It was really difficult. So we did a lot of the testing over here at the time.

01:02:39.629 --> 01:02:42.869
So we put the boat in the water with some friends.

01:02:43.669 --> 01:02:51.109
We weighed a load of stuff to go in and then we tried to capsize it And we did

01:02:51.109 --> 01:02:52.989
a lot of stability things.

01:02:53.129 --> 01:02:57.969
So I'd be in the cockpit and I'd have three or four people on the boat trying

01:02:57.969 --> 01:03:01.709
to pull it upside down and let it go.

01:03:01.709 --> 01:03:07.189
Or I'd go in the cabin and they would try and turn the boat over and all that

01:03:07.189 --> 01:03:11.749
sort of just messing about, really, John. You know, it's great fun.

01:03:12.569 --> 01:03:17.329
Absolutely. It must be quite a challenge to capsize a boat of that size that way.

01:03:17.969 --> 01:03:21.349
You can't, actually. Not without a crane. Okay.

01:03:21.769 --> 01:03:26.969
You can't... It won't... They are so...

01:03:28.205 --> 01:03:30.925
Self-writing i was about to i was

01:03:30.925 --> 01:03:34.205
about to say stable and it's probably not the so when

01:03:34.205 --> 01:03:37.445
you sit in in them the boat will have

01:03:37.445 --> 01:03:40.585
and you're paddling and you're on the

01:03:40.585 --> 01:03:43.545
sea the boat will roll with the waves

01:03:43.545 --> 01:03:46.625
a bit probably only 10 degrees no

01:03:46.625 --> 01:03:49.505
not a lot but but not when you're paddling

01:03:49.505 --> 01:03:52.505
a conventional kayak the biggest weight

01:03:52.505 --> 01:03:57.185
of the whole thing is the paddler by a long way and when you're paddling it

01:03:57.185 --> 01:04:03.825
the paddler is controlling the boat and and the paddler is always upright pretty

01:04:03.825 --> 01:04:09.125
well you know and the boat might move under them or they or they can move the

01:04:09.125 --> 01:04:10.765
boat you know that that's.

01:04:11.665 --> 01:04:14.365
In in these boats you know the

01:04:14.365 --> 01:04:17.465
paddler's 75 kilos and and

01:04:17.465 --> 01:04:21.105
the boat is 400 and something the boat

01:04:21.105 --> 01:04:23.885
controls the paddler right you know so if it

01:04:23.885 --> 01:04:26.885
has a a bit of a roll on it you know it's rolling to

01:04:26.885 --> 01:04:30.005
10 degrees or something there's nothing the paddler

01:04:30.005 --> 01:04:33.045
can do to stop that it doesn't matter

01:04:33.045 --> 01:04:35.745
if you lean the other way it makes no difference yeah you

01:04:35.745 --> 01:04:38.885
know the boats do it right so it's it's

01:04:38.885 --> 01:04:41.665
an interesting challenge you know for

01:04:41.665 --> 01:04:44.485
anyone who's who's you know

01:04:44.485 --> 01:04:47.985
a regular paddler is that you

01:04:47.985 --> 01:04:50.865
just have to paddle it and let the boat roll

01:04:50.865 --> 01:04:54.145
and you just go with the roll and keep paddling it's

01:04:54.145 --> 01:04:56.865
very counterintuitive it takes a little while to

01:04:56.865 --> 01:05:00.145
get used to but it

01:05:00.145 --> 01:05:04.345
will own it'll only really go that far

01:05:04.345 --> 01:05:07.265
unless you get a real

01:05:07.265 --> 01:05:15.605
big wave to knock it further on onto its side and And I don't think none of

01:05:15.605 --> 01:05:24.745
the three boats that I've done have ever gone more than onto their side, actually.

01:05:25.225 --> 01:05:26.945
I think possibly...

01:05:28.232 --> 01:05:35.092
I think Pete got knocked down to about 90 degrees a few times on his North Atlantic crossing.

01:05:36.012 --> 01:05:41.072
And just, you know, James had a pretty nasty storm at one point.

01:05:41.292 --> 01:05:47.892
And, you know, they said they got sort of knocked over onto the side a few times.

01:05:48.072 --> 01:05:52.392
But, you know, no more than onto the side.

01:05:52.532 --> 01:05:55.832
And it sort of pops up. None of the boats have ever rolled. okay

01:05:55.832 --> 01:05:59.372
and i'd i'd sort of i'd

01:05:59.372 --> 01:06:02.512
be surprised if they would in a sense that they're

01:06:02.512 --> 01:06:05.332
really tiny and again there's they're even

01:06:05.332 --> 01:06:08.232
much smaller than like the rowing boats a few rowing boats

01:06:08.232 --> 01:06:11.952
get rolled but because they're so small

01:06:11.952 --> 01:06:16.052
they're more like a little cork like a

01:06:16.052 --> 01:06:20.352
little cork bobbing around in this creepy sort

01:06:20.352 --> 01:06:23.112
of maelstrom i think they you know

01:06:23.112 --> 01:06:26.052
my feeling is even if it's quite a large breaking

01:06:26.052 --> 01:06:30.472
wave the boat would probably just get knocked

01:06:30.472 --> 01:06:33.512
down on its side just go off surfing sideways

01:06:33.512 --> 01:06:36.152
you know then they

01:06:36.152 --> 01:06:39.572
pop up very uncomfortable you're really

01:06:39.572 --> 01:06:43.052
not wanting to be in and for

01:06:43.052 --> 01:06:46.692
that we have you know there's inside

01:06:46.692 --> 01:06:50.152
the boat there are strapping points strong points

01:06:50.152 --> 01:06:52.992
and webbing straps you know so if it gets

01:06:52.992 --> 01:06:59.092
really nasty the idea is the paddler actually straps themselves down to the

01:06:59.092 --> 01:07:06.532
bunk you know you're with about three straps okay so you're not flying about

01:07:06.532 --> 01:07:12.332
so that would be that would be the day if you if you capsize the boat If you rolled it.

01:07:12.552 --> 01:07:20.152
It would, it's so self-righting that it would roll up so violently that you'd

01:07:20.152 --> 01:07:24.052
be thrown around inside there really very nastily.

01:07:24.592 --> 01:07:29.132
And there are, there's not a lot of stuff, but there are electronics and various

01:07:29.132 --> 01:07:30.732
other things you could go crashing into.

01:07:31.052 --> 01:07:34.372
Sure. Ah, so no.

01:07:35.212 --> 01:07:41.332
So I think actually Pete, when he tested, because I did some testing and then

01:07:41.332 --> 01:07:48.632
he did some more, he was really determined to do a full roll, get the boat to roll her.

01:07:48.692 --> 01:07:51.672
So he got a whole bunch of people on ropes and various things.

01:07:52.272 --> 01:07:56.872
And they did manage to roll it over, but it actually...

01:07:58.183 --> 01:08:02.183
It rolled over and came up so quickly the other side that actually it caught

01:08:02.183 --> 01:08:05.143
someone and threw them right over. Oh, wow.

01:08:05.443 --> 01:08:12.843
And really they got a bit hurt because it comes up very quickly.

01:08:13.263 --> 01:08:20.523
I mean, the only way you could really do it is have a small crane and some ropes and pull it over.

01:08:20.623 --> 01:08:24.403
But I think it's a sort of pointless exercise, really.

01:08:24.963 --> 01:08:29.363
I've got a few little videos of us trying to capsize it. It's quite funny.

01:08:31.263 --> 01:08:34.403
Well, this has been fun learning about the design process and things that go

01:08:34.403 --> 01:08:38.743
into creating a craft like this. I appreciate you sharing all that with us.

01:08:39.343 --> 01:08:41.203
Where can listeners connect with you?

01:08:42.063 --> 01:08:48.903
I've got a little website, rob.inookkayaks.co.uk is the web address.

01:08:48.903 --> 01:08:57.283
And if you just type in Inuk kayaks in Google or something, you will find my sort of website.

01:08:57.563 --> 01:09:03.623
And that's got various things of lots of the other boats I've done and regular kayaks.

01:09:03.763 --> 01:09:09.743
And there's a couple of little menus there with special projects and so on.

01:09:09.823 --> 01:09:14.463
So there's some information there. And then I think there's some links to Cyril's

01:09:14.463 --> 01:09:18.203
website with a lot more on the site.

01:09:18.789 --> 01:09:23.529
That particular boat on that okay yeah you design uh design craft that are a

01:09:23.529 --> 01:09:26.689
little closer to the craft that most of our listeners paddle so we'll make sure

01:09:26.689 --> 01:09:31.069
we include links to in a kayak so folks can see those yeah yeah i've done i've

01:09:31.069 --> 01:09:34.429
done a lot more of those i mean i've done dozens and dozens.

01:09:35.489 --> 01:09:40.709
Regular sea kayaks yeah yes one for uh a famous one for sean morley as well

01:09:40.709 --> 01:09:48.509
yeah we did that one That was for his round Britain and Ireland expedition,

01:09:48.929 --> 01:09:50.969
which was quite an epic, really.

01:09:51.289 --> 01:09:57.029
No one else has done it subsequently. He did that in 2004, I think. Yeah.

01:09:57.469 --> 01:10:03.049
Yeah. So that was, we sort of designed that boat for him, which is still in

01:10:03.049 --> 01:10:06.289
production with Curtin Kayaks, a little plug for Curtin Kayaks.

01:10:06.689 --> 01:10:10.809
Yeah. We'll include a link to Curtin as well. Yeah. Well, good.

01:10:11.469 --> 01:10:14.469
So i will put links to that in the show notes and so folks

01:10:14.469 --> 01:10:17.829
can connect with you and then one final question for you who else would you

01:10:17.829 --> 01:10:23.869
like to hear as a future guest on paddling the blue well as you brought up sean

01:10:23.869 --> 01:10:29.389
yeah i would think sean morley would be a really interesting guest agreed you

01:10:29.389 --> 01:10:34.449
talked to he's he's got a huge wealth of experience on.

01:10:35.529 --> 01:10:39.009
Paddling in all disciplines yes all

01:10:39.009 --> 01:10:42.329
disciplines of paddling and expedition paddling so

01:10:42.329 --> 01:10:45.609
i would i would yeah

01:10:45.609 --> 01:10:49.669
get hold of sean if you can all right he's in

01:10:49.669 --> 01:10:53.509
your neck of the woods he's in california these days yes well

01:10:53.509 --> 01:10:56.489
i'll connect with you and we'll work on connecting

01:10:56.489 --> 01:10:59.989
with sean i appreciate that opportunity it's been

01:10:59.989 --> 01:11:03.789
it's been great chatting with you john well in fact i've done all the chatting

01:11:03.789 --> 01:11:08.509
haven't i it's uh it's about you and it's about the you know folks having the

01:11:08.509 --> 01:11:11.909
opportunity to learn from you and the design process and it goes into some of

01:11:11.909 --> 01:11:16.149
the fantastic boats that you've created so we appreciate that well thank you

01:11:16.149 --> 01:11:19.209
and i hope people find it interesting thank you.

01:11:20.356 --> 01:11:23.796
If you want to be a stronger and more efficient paddler, Power to the Paddle

01:11:23.796 --> 01:11:27.416
is packed with fitness guidance and complete descriptions, along with photos

01:11:27.416 --> 01:11:31.836
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01:11:32.016 --> 01:11:35.856
The concept and exercises in this book have helped me become a better paddler,

01:11:35.936 --> 01:11:37.516
and they can make a difference for you, too.

01:11:37.796 --> 01:11:41.456
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01:11:41.456 --> 01:11:45.336
low back, use the power of your torso to create leverage and use less energy

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with each stroke, use force generated from your lower body to make your paddling

01:11:49.236 --> 01:11:50.096
strokes more efficient,

01:11:50.356 --> 01:11:54.976
have the endurance to handle long days in the boat, drive through the toughest waves or white water,

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protect your body against common paddling injuries, and while you're at it,

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And who wouldn't mind that? So visit paddlingexercises.com to get the book and companion DVD.

01:12:05.676 --> 01:12:09.296
There is certainly a good bit of science that goes into creating Rob's Kayaks,

01:12:09.456 --> 01:12:13.696
but even more, there's intuitive feel, critical thinking, and live testing,

01:12:13.876 --> 01:12:15.656
just as happens with any boats.

01:12:15.876 --> 01:12:19.216
We may not deal with the same complexities on the trips most of us take,

01:12:19.216 --> 01:12:22.996
but there's some great learning in thinking about our boats and the kit and

01:12:22.996 --> 01:12:26.096
the redundancies that we need to create just on a smaller scale.

01:12:26.436 --> 01:12:29.336
If you've not listened to Patrick Winterton from episode 68.

01:12:29.936 --> 01:12:33.456
Cyril Daramo from episode 71, and Ollie Hicks from episode 72,

01:12:33.656 --> 01:12:34.836
be sure to check those out.

01:12:34.996 --> 01:12:40.316
In addition to the skill and tenacity of the paddlers, Rob's boats made those trips a success.

01:12:40.536 --> 01:12:44.896
Thanks again to our partners at OnlineSeaKyaking.com for extending that special offer to you.

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Visit online sea kayaking.com, enter the code PTB podcast to check out,

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and you'll get 10% off just for being a member of the Paddling the Blue community.

01:12:53.456 --> 01:12:56.696
Until next time, thanks as always for listening, and I look forward to bringing

01:12:56.696 --> 01:12:59.216
you the next episode of Paddling the Blue.

01:13:00.016 --> 01:13:03.516
Thank you for listening to Paddling the Blue. You can subscribe to Paddling

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the Blue on Apple Music, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

01:13:09.136 --> 01:13:11.956
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01:13:16.256 --> 01:13:20.516
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01:13:20.776 --> 01:13:23.016
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01:13:23.176 --> 01:13:24.536
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01:13:24.720 --> 01:13:32.504
Music.