#134 - Canoecopia 2025 Madison, WI - The annual paddlers family reunion

WEBVTT

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Welcome to Paddling the Blue. With each episode, we talk with guests from the

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Great Lakes and around the globe who are doing cool things related to sea kayaking.

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I'm your host, my name is John Chase, and let's get started paddling the blue.

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Welcome to today's episode of Paddling the Blue. Today we return to one of our

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favorite events of the year and the informal kickoff to the paddling season.

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We're on the show floor at Canoe Copia in Madison, Wisconsin.

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Built as the world's largest paddle sports expo, Canoe Scopia,

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features more than 100,000 square feet of canoes, kayaks, kit,

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outfitters, everything you can imagine, plus more than 100 speakers on an incredible

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array of topics, and I am personally honored to be one of those speakers.

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A big thanks goes out to Chris Hipgrave and the entire P&H Piranha Kayaks team

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for making space in their booth to record this episode, and of course,

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for producing my favorite boats.

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We've got a great lineup of guests for today's episode. Today we'll hear from

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Graham McAereth. Graham is the founder of Piranha Kayaks and the owner of Piranha and P&H.

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And we're going to talk to Erica Rivers from Wilderness Inquiry.

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They're a not-for-profit dedicated to get those of all ages and abilities into the wilderness.

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Vincent Robichaud, founder of Trailtopia, shares how cooking meals for friends

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turned into cooking even more meals for even lots more friends.

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Longtime friend Lenore Sabota is going to join us, and she's going to share

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the return of Ladies of the Lakes.

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Stig Larsen will be sharing what's happening with the Paddle Sports Trade Coalition

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and a new initiative to get more people on the water.

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And speaking of new initiatives, Darren Bush, the chief paddling evangelist

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with Rutabaga Paddle Sports is going to join us.

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His team produces Canucopia, and he's also going to share a fantastic new program

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that I am personally excited about.

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As a reminder, if you're not already a subscriber to OnlineSeaKayaking.com,

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James and Simon keep on adding to the menu.

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Visit OnlineSeaKayaking.com. Use the coupon code PTBPODCAST to check out,

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and you'll get 10% off up to 12 months of your subscription investment.

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And don't forget, you can also join OnlineWhitewater.com. James and Simon have

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put that one together, and there's lots of great content out there to help you

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advance your skills on the rivers as well.

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Enjoy today's episode from Canoe Copia.

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Well, I'm joined by Graham McAereth, and Graham is the founder of Piranha Kayaks

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and the founder and owner of Piranha P&H Kayaks. So welcome, Graham.

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Thank you very much. Yeah, so you were a guest on episode 55.

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That's going back quite a ways for us.

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Seems like yesterday. Yeah.

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Well, it's a pleasure to see you again. We're at Canoe Copia,

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and I have not seen you at Canoe Copia in the last few years,

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so it's nice to be able to connect with you today.

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And we're here in the P&H Piranha Kayaks booth, and it's been a great show.

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And so, you know, we appreciate the brand being here, and we had a lot of good

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fans and guests and enthusiasts come by.

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It's a great show. I haven't been for, well, since pre-COVID,

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and then pretty much I was here every year before that through,

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i think to about 2003 or 2004

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was probably the first time i came okay it's a

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wonderful show with wonderful people and a

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lot of customers we see you know each year and

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it's just nice to connect with them and it but

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part of what i do here is just listen and i'm

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listening looking at what people are wanting and obviously

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it's my job to try to you know give them

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the kind of craft that they're going to enjoy their paddling in

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and i usually take an awful lot of back back with

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me back to the uk yeah and this morning we

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got here early before the show and i i saw you talking with chris hipgrave

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and you were looking looking through boats and probably thinking about design

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options and you know this is a great opportunity to connect with the people

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who are using the boats and learn from them what they like and what they'd like

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to see improved exactly so that's exactly it's at the end of the day it's our

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job to give people what they want absolutely so that design process,

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I imagine, is pretty iterative over time.

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And you've been heavily involved in the design of the boats in the line.

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And one of those that's a personal favorite of mine being a Cetus owner is, of course, the Cetus.

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And I know that was a favorite of yours. And you'd mentioned earlier that was

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one of your go-to boats, of course.

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Tell us a little bit about the process that went into designing the Cetus.

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Well, before we took over P&H.

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We've had a close working relationship with dave patrick

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had been the previous owner and he built one

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or two of our designs under license but not the sea kite

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side and so sea kites

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weren't totally new to us but it was a wonderful opportunity well first

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of all i took over a tremendous team of people who

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manufacture the boats and it was also you know wonderful of wonderful opportunity

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to bring their range and our range together and and so and in fact pnh composite

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is still just where it always has been with the same team of people.

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We decided that we really wanted a kayak that was a little bit more stable than

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the Quest, which was the mainstay of the range at the time.

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And there were certain attributes that we were looking to gain.

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And the story started out with one of the capellas, effectively,

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one of the smaller capellas, the 163.

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It had some very interesting characteristics. Each of the capellas was slightly

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different, aimed at a slightly different weight profile.

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And we thought it might be

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the basis of a longer kayak and

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so we sort of started with that and it

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was it was probably the most wonderful

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of development processes in many ways because the

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more that we developed it the more benefits that we

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found in it and previously before

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that we had a situation where you know

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most of the sea kayaks were deep v and a lot of people wouldn't find any stability

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until they were fully loaded up well you know we wanted a boat that was going

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to be both a good expedition boat but we wanted to be a day paddling boat as well and so personally,

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i enjoy my sea kayaking and i don't want to lug loads of stuff around in my

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boat just so it can be stable and so we developed shape and then we were looking

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for this combination of weight carrying capability and stability.

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And we tried one or two different shapes

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one of them was where we started to move a little

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bit more buoyancy out towards the end of the boat and then

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we found when you lent the boat that

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suddenly it was spinning around on a dime and it

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became quite a ballet star and this was

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a revelation and we also found that

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because we were going slightly broader and less deep

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veed there was less windage so it didn't get pushed around

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as much by the wind and so suddenly

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we had this boat that very much had two profiles you

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know if it was paddled upright it was just fast

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and stable and comfortable handled the waves really nicely

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but when you lent it it was really quite a

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ballet star and it just

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went from one benefit to another it usually when

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you you develop a kayak you got a name

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in mind and sometimes it

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takes a while sometimes you achieve it quite quickly but situs

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was one that just kept giving and giving and giving and it

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was just marvelous development process it was wonderful that's fantastic and

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i'd say you nailed it you know thank you did a great job with it it's and and

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it true to form like you said it's it's the do everything and you know it's

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i've heard a lot of folks actually here at the show talking about well well,

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you know, this boat, I need to add some ballast because it just doesn't feel right if it's unloaded.

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And to be able to have a boat that feels great loaded, feels great unloaded,

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still performs well in either of those situations. That's definitely good characteristics.

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Yeah. So now you mentioned the name Cetus. How did, so just specifically that

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one, how'd you pick that one for that boat?

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Well, with P&H, they've been looking at constellations for a while.

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So, you know, we had Orion and Capella.

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So we just followed the path and looked at the stars.

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And so we just looked at a constellation and Cetus just stood out for us. All right.

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But deciding on names is a bit of... When you're deciding something,

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the name seems all important. I'm not sure that it really is.

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Sometimes you get it right and sometimes you get it wrong. And because we ship

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boats all around the world, you have to consider the name in various different languages.

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And sometimes you don't always get it right. So I'll tell you one little story.

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Sure but it's not on the pnh range it's on the piranha range and so in the early

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days when we were getting into slalom and i was still quite young my brother

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was still at school and we developed this really good slalom kayak and it was

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doing pretty well internationally.

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Mostly with british paddlers and they were in the

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top 10 in internationals i went

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to this this oh and sorry and i

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said to my brother who was doing german at school german names were

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very much in vogue at the time what should we call it and

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after a while he came back and said vedel so i said what's vedel

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so he says well it's vedeling is skiing through

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poles and for slalom that was perfect so we

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spelt it v-e-d-e-l and i

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went to the first international slalom with it and like i

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said the brits were doing pretty well with it and every

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time a german came past he was laughing and by

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the end of the weekend i was getting a bit of complex and that shame the

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boat wasn't that bad and it was doing pretty well and

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and the german coach came past and so i said god why is everybody laughing at

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the boat he said oh no stop the boat it's the name what's wrong with the name

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he said well fatal it means a feather duster so i said well i thought it was

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a skiing to. He says, ah, no, that's with a W.

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And there have been other times when we suddenly found out that it wasn't a

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very savory name in various languages, so we had to chase them.

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So P&H's names with the galaxies and constellations has been a fairly safe bet,

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much safer than some of the others. They translate across different languages.

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They do. Excellent, excellent. So So do you pick the name as you're designing

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the boat, or do you generally pick the name after the designing the boat? Varies. Okay.

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Names are, they either come easily, and it just seems right.

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Or the more people you ask, the more that you get different ideas.

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And some of them you know are not going to work, but people get quite invested in their suggestion.

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So sometimes it's quite a painful process. So it's a real mix.

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A real mix. You try and get a name that's going to be inspirational,

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that people are going to enjoy the name of the boat.

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I think we don't do a bad job. Yeah.

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Does the entire team get involved in that naming process, from designers to

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builders and everyone in between? Yeah. I mean...

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We try and keep it tight, but we try and spread it around.

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So not infrequently, we'll go down on the production floor and we'll talk to

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the people and go, we're thinking about this. What do you think?

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Or give them two or three options and get them to pick their favorite.

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So we try and share it around. That's great. It's the same as everything we

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do. We try and make it as inclusive as possible.

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We have a great team of people and they all like to contribute.

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And so we enjoy doing that. Good. So how many are on the team that are building the brand for you?

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Well, there's about 80 of us. All right. Obviously, you know, we have our U.S. team.

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Mostly the manufacturing, well, the manufacturers are all done in Britain.

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All the parts are British.

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So we don't buy from China or a lot of these Asian countries.

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We like to keep everything in control.

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And so there's about 80 of us actually in the Piranha P&H teams.

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All right. Right. Well, thank you for building a fantastic range of boats in

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both the Piranha and the P&H line, for enthusiasts, by enthusiasts.

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That's exactly what we are. Thank you very much indeed, Joe.

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Thank you. Enjoy the rest of the show. Thank you. I will do.

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I'm joined now by Erica Rivers. And Erica, you're with Wilderness Inquiry.

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I am. I've been with Wilderness Inquiry for about three years now as the executive

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director and loving every minute of it.

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Fantastic. Well, tell us about Wilderness Inquiry and your mission. Yeah, absolutely.

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So we are a 501c3 nonprofit organization. We've been operating out of the state

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of Minnesota since 1978, and our mission is to get people of all ages,

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backgrounds, and abilities into the outdoors so they can benefit from the great

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opportunities and health and wellness benefits of being outdoors.

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That's fantastic. So how do you go about doing that? Yeah, we offer trips all

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across the nation and the world, actually.

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We call it travel with a purpose. So we offer adventure travel to folks at very

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reasonable, moderate price. We try to hit sort of those mid-range lodging facilities and campgrounds.

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And then the profit that we make from those adventure travel,

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we pump back into our programs to bring youth into the outdoors and really connect

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young people to the outdoors with what we call our Canoe Mobile program,

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which are our big 10-person North canoes. We put about six of those on a trailer.

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And we go to, we take our...

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Canoe Mobile trailers to the classrooms, to the kids.

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So we really try to get them paddling on local waterways that are really close

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to their backyard so that they have exposure to the natural world right outside their back door.

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Okay. So who participates in your programs? Yeah. So for our adventure travel

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programs, it's all ages, backgrounds, and abilities.

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We provide youth programs for school groups and youth advocacy organizations.

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We have a model which we call the Pyramid of Outdoor Engagement.

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And that model really thinks about or contemplates how to get somebody from

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their backyard all the way out to the back country through a series of progressive

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opportunities that teach them more skills.

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Help build their confidence, and actually just, we say, kind of build better people.

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They just are, folks tend to learn that they can do more than they thought they

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could do when they're adventuring outdoors.

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So we do a lot with youth-serving organizations, But our clientele is really

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probably ages fourth grade all the way to I think our oldest participant was

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actually 92 years old. Wow. That went on a backcountry and abilities.

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OK, so now you mentioned youth groups. So now it sounds like you create and

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source your own programs, but then you also work with other organizations that

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want to create their programs.

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Absolutely, we do. Yeah. So, you know, we work with a lot of youth advocacy

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organizations that really are just trying to build a better citizenry for the next generation.

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People who are going to be the stewards of our natural resources.

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And also building just basic social-emotional learning and leadership skills

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in the youth population that have been largely disconnected from the outdoors over time.

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So those kinds of skills are not just for paddle sports. They're not just for outdoor adventure.

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They're skills for a lifetime. And those skills get built in the medium of the outdoors.

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Certainly. So now you have especially adaptive equipment and a specially trained

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staff to be support everybody of all abilities. Absolutely.

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So we started in 1978, really trying to help people who are experiencing different

00:15:44.570 --> 00:15:49.350
kinds of disabilities get into the outdoors and have very authentic,

00:15:49.350 --> 00:15:51.550
meaningful experiences in the outdoors.

00:15:51.550 --> 00:15:55.150
So we say that we don't really do special trips for special people.

00:15:55.150 --> 00:15:58.710
What we do is we do really inclusive trips for all people.

00:15:58.910 --> 00:16:03.410
And so we train our guides to help with various kinds of challenges with ability.

00:16:03.590 --> 00:16:07.410
So folks that are experiencing a disability of some kind, like a physical disability,

00:16:07.750 --> 00:16:11.830
maybe a cognitive disability, maybe they've gone through a traumatic brain injury.

00:16:12.190 --> 00:16:16.230
We have our staff especially trained to help support them, have a really meaningful

00:16:16.230 --> 00:16:20.550
experience in the outdoors in a very integrated, inclusive group setting.

00:16:20.930 --> 00:16:25.810
Okay, and what types of programming do you offer? Yeah, so we offer in our extended

00:16:25.810 --> 00:16:29.470
adventures, we do some really great programming in Apostle Islands National

00:16:29.470 --> 00:16:32.370
Lakeshore, as well as in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness,

00:16:32.530 --> 00:16:33.370
Voyagers National Park.

00:16:33.772 --> 00:16:36.892
So those are all, of course, water-based, canoe-based programs.

00:16:36.892 --> 00:16:39.632
We also do hiking and backpacking programs.

00:16:39.812 --> 00:16:44.372
Those are Yellowstone National Park. We do those out in Glacier National Park

00:16:44.372 --> 00:16:47.252
as well as Olympic. So we do lots of different activities.

00:16:47.592 --> 00:16:50.812
And in those cases, when I talk about backyard to backcountry,

00:16:51.052 --> 00:16:55.492
we're really trying to help people have one to two day experiences near nature,

00:16:55.632 --> 00:16:59.652
near their home, where they can build some of those skills before we'll take

00:16:59.652 --> 00:17:05.512
them on an extended adventure out to maybe between four and 14 days in extended

00:17:05.512 --> 00:17:07.952
backcountry locations.

00:17:08.092 --> 00:17:11.012
All right. So you mentioned international trips as well.

00:17:11.532 --> 00:17:16.932
Outside of Canada, of course, Canada being international and a great destination close to home here.

00:17:17.132 --> 00:17:20.932
What are some of the really ambitious international trips that you've taken on?

00:17:21.012 --> 00:17:24.812
Yeah, so some of the really fun ones that we're doing, we do a trip every December

00:17:24.812 --> 00:17:30.232
to New Zealand. We also have a great outfitter we work with in Tanzania and Kenya.

00:17:30.732 --> 00:17:35.252
So we have a trip going in December that's going to be in Tanzania and Zanzibar.

00:17:35.492 --> 00:17:38.072
We go to Costa Rica and Belize every year.

00:17:38.312 --> 00:17:42.232
And then not international, still United States, but we have an amazing Hawaii

00:17:42.232 --> 00:17:46.012
trip that's on the Big Island where we explore Volcanoes National Park,

00:17:46.012 --> 00:17:49.672
as well as a lot of the indigenous cultural sites on the Big Island.

00:17:49.832 --> 00:17:54.492
So that's an amazing opportunity to spend some time in the water there as well. That's fantastic.

00:17:54.712 --> 00:17:57.472
Yeah. How can people learn more about Wilderness Inquiry and the trips that

00:17:57.472 --> 00:17:58.892
you offer? Yeah, thanks for asking.

00:17:59.112 --> 00:18:05.212
You just go to www.wildernessinquiry.org, and all of our information about our

00:18:05.212 --> 00:18:09.032
youth programs is out there, as well as all of our extended adventure information

00:18:09.032 --> 00:18:11.672
as well. Great. Erica, thank you very much for joining me today.

00:18:11.992 --> 00:18:16.252
My pleasure. Thank you for making the outdoors even more inclusive. Same to you. Thanks.

00:18:16.952 --> 00:18:20.592
I'm joined now by Vincent Robichaud, and Vincent is with Trailtopia.

00:18:21.112 --> 00:18:23.292
So, Vincent, tell us what is Trailtopia?

00:18:24.032 --> 00:18:28.692
Trailtopia makes freeze-dried, dehydrated package meals for backpacking and

00:18:28.692 --> 00:18:30.772
camping, any backcountry travel.

00:18:31.072 --> 00:18:33.212
You know, everything is cook in the bag and eat from the bag.

00:18:33.332 --> 00:18:36.992
You add boiling water to the bag, mix it up, wait 10 minutes, and it's ready to eat.

00:18:37.372 --> 00:18:41.052
Rinse your spoon off, and you're done with dishes. Okay. So tell us about the company itself.

00:18:41.472 --> 00:18:46.172
Sure. Trailtopia is a family business. We were founded in 2014.

00:18:47.132 --> 00:18:52.132
The idea came about on a backpacking trip to the Sawtooth Mountains in Idaho.

00:18:52.132 --> 00:18:56.352
We had about eight of us on the trip, and I had been making food for friends

00:18:56.352 --> 00:18:59.012
and family when we go on these trips. And...

00:19:00.167 --> 00:19:03.187
Group I was with said, you know, you make really good food. We think you should

00:19:03.187 --> 00:19:04.247
share this with other people.

00:19:04.407 --> 00:19:06.847
And I said, you know what? You come up with a really, you know,

00:19:06.867 --> 00:19:09.607
come up with a good name for the business and I'll do it.

00:19:09.807 --> 00:19:13.687
And so they sitting around the campfire, maybe drinking some scotch or something,

00:19:13.947 --> 00:19:17.547
you know, they came up with the Trailtopia name. And I said, that's a great name.

00:19:17.687 --> 00:19:22.267
And I literally came back from that trip, registered the domain name and just dove in.

00:19:22.547 --> 00:19:27.527
I had to learn how to, you know, convert my homemade stuff to commercially viable products,

00:19:27.527 --> 00:19:31.047
right and and fit in with all the regulations and and

00:19:31.047 --> 00:19:33.847
that's what we did all right so 11 years ago sitting around

00:19:33.847 --> 00:19:36.847
a campfire you get basically formed the formed the

00:19:36.847 --> 00:19:41.867
idea for the business right there exactly exactly right super now and you mentioned

00:19:41.867 --> 00:19:46.047
uh the booth here you said uh your family was there at the booth yeah my wife

00:19:46.047 --> 00:19:50.127
my son and my daughter-in-law yeah i have three adult children and they all

00:19:50.127 --> 00:19:53.887
help out with the business in some way and heck i even have a granddaughter

00:19:53.887 --> 00:19:55.767
that works at our business on and off.

00:19:55.987 --> 00:20:00.147
So yeah, we're truly a family business. We do, all our food is made from scratch.

00:20:00.367 --> 00:20:04.447
They're all our own seasoning mixes and everything. So they're basically all

00:20:04.447 --> 00:20:05.907
my recipes that I created.

00:20:06.087 --> 00:20:10.407
And anytime that I create something new, it has to get tested through all my

00:20:10.407 --> 00:20:12.507
family members and they're, we're foodies.

00:20:12.667 --> 00:20:15.267
So we, they're very picky about the food that we produce.

00:20:15.447 --> 00:20:19.687
And so nothing goes into a bag until it's passed all the tests of,

00:20:19.947 --> 00:20:21.847
you know, everybody's giving me comments on it.

00:20:21.947 --> 00:20:26.347
So we don't make something just to have a product in a bag. It has to be really,

00:20:26.427 --> 00:20:29.307
really good in order for us to put it in a bag and sell it. Okay.

00:20:29.667 --> 00:20:32.627
Yeah. I just had a sample of your, was it blueberry peach cobbler?

00:20:32.847 --> 00:20:35.667
Bag inside. You pull that out. You make the filling with hot water.

00:20:36.167 --> 00:20:39.007
When you're ready to eat it, you sprinkle the crisp over the top.

00:20:39.007 --> 00:20:39.867
So it's nice and crunchy.

00:20:40.127 --> 00:20:43.987
And we do the crisp topping from scratch. So like I said, we do pretty much

00:20:43.987 --> 00:20:47.807
everything from scratch. We even make our own graham crackers from scratch. That's pretty cool.

00:20:48.067 --> 00:20:52.767
And that sample, it tasted like homemade. It truly did.

00:20:52.967 --> 00:20:56.307
It does, yeah. Sometimes you get that weird consistency with the fruit that

00:20:56.307 --> 00:21:00.547
it's just not quite rehydrated enough, and this was good stuff.

00:21:00.687 --> 00:21:02.187
Good, and I'm glad you liked it. Yeah.

00:21:02.647 --> 00:21:07.627
So your booth has grown considerably over the years, so I'm guessing the company

00:21:07.627 --> 00:21:10.207
has as well. Yeah, we've been actually doing pretty good.

00:21:10.407 --> 00:21:14.007
We are probably in about 600 stores nationwide now. Now, you know,

00:21:14.067 --> 00:21:17.947
a lot of independent outdoor specialty retailers, you know, that's kind of really

00:21:17.947 --> 00:21:20.427
our target stores that we choose.

00:21:20.807 --> 00:21:26.107
We're in a distributor, which got us into REI. So, we're in about 140 REI stores

00:21:26.107 --> 00:21:27.587
now through our distributor.

00:21:28.167 --> 00:21:31.147
They carry a limited selection of our products, but it's a start.

00:21:31.407 --> 00:21:33.427
And, you know, we've been growing year on year.

00:21:33.707 --> 00:21:38.367
And so, I'm happy about that. I quit my corporate job a few years back.

00:21:38.587 --> 00:21:41.767
So, I'm concentrating fully on Trailtopia.

00:21:42.167 --> 00:21:45.467
That's great. Now, why, why food?

00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:52.699
Well, I have a passion for cooking. I grew up with a mother that cooked everything homemade.

00:21:52.899 --> 00:21:55.639
I mean, she made home. I didn't have a store-bought cookie until I was like nine.

00:21:55.959 --> 00:21:59.999
I mean, she made everything from scratch. And that just kind of stuck with me.

00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.799
And as I grew up, I started getting more and more into cooking.

00:22:04.099 --> 00:22:08.659
And it's just something I'm really passionate about and passionate about the

00:22:08.659 --> 00:22:12.359
outdoors. So I combined those two things together, you know, and it worked out.

00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:16.279
So what are some of your favorite meals from Chaletopia? My favorite,

00:22:16.479 --> 00:22:20.559
some of my favorite meals, depending on the day, you know, it's if I want spicy or not.

00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:24.179
Ginger chicken stir fry is not spicy, but it's very flavorful.

00:22:24.339 --> 00:22:28.179
It's got the nice ginger taste and the soy sauce, you know, from a typical stir

00:22:28.179 --> 00:22:29.919
fry loaded with veggies.

00:22:30.199 --> 00:22:32.999
You can see the broccoli. You can see the peas and the mushrooms.

00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:36.899
You know, you see the ingredients. When you look at our food and you make it,

00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:40.639
it looks like food. It doesn't look like some brown mush, right?

00:22:40.919 --> 00:22:45.059
And it tastes great. That's awesome. What's new? What's coming out soon?

00:22:45.779 --> 00:22:50.079
Right now, I'm working on a creamy chicken wild rice soup that really thick, smart rice stew.

00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:55.279
And so we've got that pretty well nailed down. The wild rice was the hard part

00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:57.479
because it takes an hour to cook wild rice normally.

00:22:57.899 --> 00:23:00.819
And so we've had to kind of figure out the best way to do that.

00:23:00.939 --> 00:23:05.499
So we don't pre-cook our food and our meals and then freeze dry it.

00:23:05.959 --> 00:23:10.479
Our meals are individually put together with the individual ingredients.

00:23:10.859 --> 00:23:14.099
And so the first time it's cooked is when the customer cooks it.

00:23:14.099 --> 00:23:17.359
When you cook it in the bag, that's the first time it's getting cooked,

00:23:17.619 --> 00:23:20.999
with the exception of the meats. The meats are cooked and then freeze-dried. Okay.

00:23:21.479 --> 00:23:24.859
Now, for our international guests, do you distribute internationally as well?

00:23:24.999 --> 00:23:29.779
We sell into Canada just online through our website.

00:23:30.099 --> 00:23:33.459
We don't sell retail in Canada yet.

00:23:33.779 --> 00:23:38.279
A little tricky because the labeling has to be different than what it is here in the U.S.

00:23:38.599 --> 00:23:43.379
We've sold into Europe a little bit. Shipping is kind of prohibitive, but...

00:23:43.801 --> 00:23:47.441
We still have people that want it, and they order it. All right.

00:23:47.741 --> 00:23:52.381
Where can people learn more about Trailtopia? Well, you can go to Trailtopia.com,

00:23:52.501 --> 00:23:54.441
and we have our whole story there.

00:23:54.641 --> 00:23:59.041
And I, at Trailtopia.com, order's over $50. We ship for free.

00:23:59.221 --> 00:24:03.321
We turn around our shipments really quickly, so you don't have to wait too long.

00:24:04.661 --> 00:24:11.081
And the meals are great. You know, I have people come back year on year and

00:24:11.081 --> 00:24:14.041
tell us, you know, good stories about our meals.

00:24:14.421 --> 00:24:18.061
And I've had customers sell other customers our products. I don't even have to do anything.

00:24:18.861 --> 00:24:22.601
And our desserts are bar none the best on the market, for sure.

00:24:23.201 --> 00:24:27.621
And all of our meals are very competitive. One of the things that we did when

00:24:27.621 --> 00:24:30.821
we were making these products, and we said, okay, what can we do?

00:24:30.941 --> 00:24:33.141
What else can we do besides making really great food?

00:24:33.481 --> 00:24:36.301
And so we really looked at our packaging, you know, closely.

00:24:36.641 --> 00:24:40.421
And we turned all of our bags sideways, so they're short and wide.

00:24:40.421 --> 00:24:44.861
You don't need the extra long spork to get down in there and still get your hands messy.

00:24:45.021 --> 00:24:49.761
So it's easy to mix, you know, the bag up, you know, the ingredients when you're making it.

00:24:49.941 --> 00:24:52.041
And it's easy to eat directly from the bag.

00:24:52.581 --> 00:24:55.701
That's great. Great way to listen to your customer, too. Yeah. All right.

00:24:56.021 --> 00:24:58.701
Vincent, thank you very much. I appreciate that. And congratulations on the

00:24:58.701 --> 00:25:00.921
success of Trailtopia. Thank you very much. You're welcome.

00:25:01.501 --> 00:25:05.061
My friend Lenore Sabota has joined me. Lenore, welcome.

00:25:05.761 --> 00:25:10.081
Thank you. It's good seeing you here. Always good seeing you as well at the family reunion.

00:25:10.301 --> 00:25:14.381
Right. That's exactly what it is. So we're here to talk about an event that

00:25:14.381 --> 00:25:17.901
has not been around for, what, eight years or something like that?

00:25:18.061 --> 00:25:22.861
Right. I think it was 2018 was the last one we had. Yeah. So Ladies of the Lakes.

00:25:23.321 --> 00:25:27.721
So tell us about what is Ladies of the Lakes? Well, it started,

00:25:27.761 --> 00:25:33.921
I believe, in 2004 or 2005, and it was basically all women instructors,

00:25:34.361 --> 00:25:35.301
all women participants.

00:25:35.701 --> 00:25:38.061
So it was a very welcoming atmosphere where you.

00:25:38.904 --> 00:25:42.484
Were not afraid to just look silly if that's what it turned out to be.

00:25:42.704 --> 00:25:47.824
And you weren't trying to compete with people that maybe you thought you couldn't measure up to.

00:25:48.504 --> 00:25:53.464
And by having women instructors as well that provided role models to see maybe

00:25:53.464 --> 00:25:54.984
you could do a lot more than you thought you could.

00:25:55.184 --> 00:25:58.324
Yeah, yeah. It was a very successful event. I think they just had some other

00:25:58.324 --> 00:26:02.544
things that kind of prevented them from keeping that event going. So where was it held?

00:26:03.144 --> 00:26:06.484
At first, it was actually a traveling exposition that was great because you

00:26:06.484 --> 00:26:11.204
got to kind of, For those of us from Illinois, we got to find more places along

00:26:11.204 --> 00:26:15.124
the UP, but that logistically was pretty difficult.

00:26:15.304 --> 00:26:18.864
So then they settled on Munising, which is the gateway to Pictured Rocks National

00:26:18.864 --> 00:26:21.764
Lakeshore, which is just an incredible place to explore.

00:26:22.204 --> 00:26:26.064
Okay. So aside from some women as participants, women as instructors,

00:26:26.264 --> 00:26:27.524
what else makes the event special?

00:26:27.884 --> 00:26:32.384
The camaraderie. I mean, I made friends with people there that I went on other

00:26:32.384 --> 00:26:39.544
trips with outside of the symposium. and we ended up starting a tradition of having a theme party.

00:26:39.724 --> 00:26:42.644
Even though I said that we were all women instructors and participants,

00:26:42.644 --> 00:26:46.804
we also had some men there that either worked for Downwind Sports or for some

00:26:46.804 --> 00:26:50.144
of the companies, and Dan Mimongo started one.

00:26:50.264 --> 00:26:55.644
We had a pajama party one year, and that wound up being so much fun that we

00:26:55.644 --> 00:26:59.024
kind of continued that with different themes. We've had pirate parties.

00:26:59.204 --> 00:27:04.544
We've had casino party. We've had superhero party and this one coming up,

00:27:04.724 --> 00:27:08.504
the theme is going to be Looney Tunes and any cartoon character you can imagine.

00:27:08.704 --> 00:27:10.504
So I got to start thinking what my costume is going to be.

00:27:10.984 --> 00:27:15.304
Yeah, I know that participants have thought about that for months in advance

00:27:15.304 --> 00:27:17.384
and trying just to perfect that costume.

00:27:17.864 --> 00:27:23.344
Absolutely. One of the big highlights. So now, so you attended as a participant initially.

00:27:23.704 --> 00:27:27.644
And so tell us about your start with Ladies of the Lake and then kind of how you grew from there.

00:27:28.204 --> 00:27:31.004
Well, the funny part, I knew Bill Thompson from Downwind Sports,

00:27:31.184 --> 00:27:33.964
the sponsor, through ice climbing. They have a Michigan Ice Fest.

00:27:34.304 --> 00:27:37.764
And I was at Ice Fest, and I mentioned that I had just started kayaking.

00:27:37.864 --> 00:27:41.184
At that point, I didn't even own a sea kayak or anything. I was just a beginner.

00:27:41.344 --> 00:27:44.764
And he was like, you're kayaking now? We got a festival for you.

00:27:45.204 --> 00:27:49.344
And so that's what got me going there. And believe me when I say,

00:27:49.584 --> 00:27:51.764
literally, I was still afraid of water at that time.

00:27:52.164 --> 00:27:56.124
They were trying to teach me how to roll. And they actually had to get me out

00:27:56.124 --> 00:27:58.844
of the boat because I was so rigid in the boat because I was so nervous.

00:27:59.144 --> 00:28:01.944
They had to get me out of the boat. But that was one of the things that was

00:28:01.944 --> 00:28:05.084
special about Ladies of the Lake is it was very individualized.

00:28:05.564 --> 00:28:08.144
Instructors working with you one-on-one, if that's what it took.

00:28:08.604 --> 00:28:13.204
And so the funny thing about it or amazing thing about it is I went from being

00:28:13.204 --> 00:28:17.444
that scared participant in 2006, I think it was that I was there,

00:28:17.844 --> 00:28:23.204
to eventually actually becoming a kayak instructor and being able to pass along the knowledge.

00:28:23.204 --> 00:28:28.024
And especially with participants who were as afraid as I was at that first symposium,

00:28:28.264 --> 00:28:32.544
I could really relate and help them relax and see, like, this is what you can

00:28:32.544 --> 00:28:33.744
do, even if you're afraid of everything.

00:28:33.984 --> 00:28:37.164
Yeah, that's fantastic. What a great growth experience. Definitely. Yeah.

00:28:38.742 --> 00:28:44.082
So where has that taken you from there? Well, I've been an instructor both there

00:28:44.082 --> 00:28:49.342
with Ladies of the Lake and also at the Door County Sea Kayak Symposium that Rutabaga sponsored.

00:28:49.442 --> 00:28:52.282
In fact, that's where I got my training to be an instructor was through them.

00:28:53.642 --> 00:28:59.402
I basically have paddled or taught in Lake Huron, Lake Michigan, Lake Superior.

00:28:59.922 --> 00:29:03.462
So I've really got to travel around different places I probably wouldn't have

00:29:03.462 --> 00:29:04.982
gone if I hadn't gotten involved with that.

00:29:05.382 --> 00:29:10.282
Great. I'm also just an avid outdoors person. I love birding. I love photography.

00:29:11.382 --> 00:29:15.682
And kayaking has got me into areas that you can't get on foot.

00:29:15.822 --> 00:29:18.562
I mean, birds will fly away if you're crunching through the leaves.

00:29:18.682 --> 00:29:21.642
You float up in a boat and you get really close.

00:29:21.862 --> 00:29:24.582
You get some really good pictures, just good experiences.

00:29:25.062 --> 00:29:30.222
Great. So I know one thing about you is that you meticulously track your activity.

00:29:31.182 --> 00:29:35.562
So how many active days did you have in 2024? for?

00:29:36.622 --> 00:29:40.982
I don't remember offhand, but I basically, I try at least five days a week.

00:29:41.122 --> 00:29:44.862
I try to get out if it's just for a hike on a, I've got a hiking,

00:29:44.962 --> 00:29:46.762
biking trail that's just a couple blocks from my house.

00:29:47.122 --> 00:29:51.462
So I try to get out at least, like I said, about five out of seven days I get out there.

00:29:52.542 --> 00:29:55.242
And one of the things I've always said, even if I didn't feel like it or the

00:29:55.242 --> 00:29:56.942
weather's bad, I said, well, give yourself 15 minutes.

00:29:56.982 --> 00:29:59.922
If it's still not good, then okay, go

00:29:59.922 --> 00:30:02.722
ahead and go back home and very very seldom have

00:30:02.722 --> 00:30:05.782
i ever regretted going out but there's

00:30:05.782 --> 00:30:08.682
been times i regretted not going out yeah yeah nobody

00:30:08.682 --> 00:30:11.542
ever came back from a from a bike ride or from a

00:30:11.542 --> 00:30:14.982
paddle trip and said gee i wish i didn't take that ride

00:30:14.982 --> 00:30:17.982
right that bike you know i suppose it's possible if it was something

00:30:17.982 --> 00:30:20.602
for example i had a day where i wasn't feeling well i was

00:30:20.602 --> 00:30:23.222
with with my good friend ann and i was like well i'm

00:30:23.222 --> 00:30:26.702
not sure how long i can go let's try it out and basically 15

00:30:26.702 --> 00:30:29.402
minutes into the paddle it was i said i can't do this

00:30:29.402 --> 00:30:32.142
my leg hurts and so we turned around went back but i

00:30:32.142 --> 00:30:34.942
still don't regret going right and i

00:30:34.942 --> 00:30:38.382
was with somebody who i trusted if i was going to get into trouble she'd

00:30:38.382 --> 00:30:41.782
been to ladies of the lakes symposium so i knew she knew how to do rescues and

00:30:41.782 --> 00:30:44.882
she knew how to tow me if she had to that's right unfortunately it didn't come

00:30:44.882 --> 00:30:48.042
to that yeah so what else would you want people to know about ladies of the

00:30:48.042 --> 00:30:52.982
lakes it's it's for all all skill levels it's if if you're just a ranked beginner

00:30:52.982 --> 00:30:57.402
you can come if you're very experienced for this festival that's coming up, they're going to have,

00:30:57.882 --> 00:30:59.922
real tranquil paddles as well as,

00:31:00.442 --> 00:31:02.402
something for those who want to get more challenged.

00:31:02.742 --> 00:31:04.862
So that's one of the big things I think people need to know.

00:31:05.022 --> 00:31:07.402
And also, it's a very safety-oriented group.

00:31:07.922 --> 00:31:11.182
So they're not going to be getting you out there in conditions that you shouldn't

00:31:11.182 --> 00:31:13.022
be in. And the big thing is just.

00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:18.060
Fun. I made, like I said, so many good friends there that I've been lasting

00:31:18.060 --> 00:31:20.260
friends that I've done other trips with.

00:31:20.740 --> 00:31:24.740
And it's just been, it helped me grow. Like I said, I started out as someone,

00:31:24.900 --> 00:31:27.500
I would never have dreamed that I was going to become an instructor.

00:31:28.220 --> 00:31:32.700
And that has been so rewarding. Really excited to hear about the progress that

00:31:32.700 --> 00:31:34.400
Ladies of the Lake's helped you make.

00:31:34.540 --> 00:31:37.440
I know that there's so many others here that have had great experiences with

00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:43.240
it well. And if somebody's looking for Ladies of the Lake, they can go to downwindsports.com

00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:46.060
and see more information about it as well as register.

00:31:46.280 --> 00:31:49.720
And it is going to be August 15 through 17, 2025.

00:31:50.180 --> 00:31:52.840
And then let's hope it's back in future years as well. That'll be great.

00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:54.340
Thanks, Lenar. Thanks, Sean.

00:31:55.080 --> 00:31:58.320
I'm here with Stig Larson. Welcome, Stig. Hi, thanks for having me again.

00:31:58.500 --> 00:32:00.680
Stig, you've been a multi-time guest.

00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:04.140
You're always a favorite here at Canoe Copia and I always enjoy having you come

00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:08.840
here. And so president of Level 6? Yes, still going strong. Yeah.

00:32:09.140 --> 00:32:14.460
So you are also the chair of the board of the Palsports Trade Coalition.

00:32:14.760 --> 00:32:17.940
Yeah. So tell us about the trade coalition. Trade coalition is,

00:32:18.020 --> 00:32:22.020
you know, it's been multi-years in the running, but we became official last year.

00:32:22.360 --> 00:32:27.440
The Palsports Trade Coalition is a not-for-profit that is made up of all the

00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:28.880
people involved in the industry.

00:32:29.080 --> 00:32:32.420
So brands, retailers, outfitters, sales reps, and media associates,

00:32:32.780 --> 00:32:37.360
and clubs and schools, with the singular goal of, you know, growing unity in

00:32:37.360 --> 00:32:41.380
paddle sports, making the industry healthier, growing participation.

00:32:42.100 --> 00:32:45.120
Yeah, and just being able to be able to kind of a unified voice amongst all

00:32:45.120 --> 00:32:46.380
stakeholders in the industry.

00:32:46.600 --> 00:32:49.480
Okay. And so you've got some initiatives coming up, one in particular that's

00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:51.100
going to happen in June this year. Tell us about that.

00:32:51.280 --> 00:32:54.380
Yeah, it's been pretty exciting. Like last, I was in Strasbourg at a trade show

00:32:54.380 --> 00:32:58.080
last fall, and I was just kind of thinking of ideas, like what we could do to

00:32:58.080 --> 00:33:02.460
kind of really get grassroots growth and introduce people into paddle sports ultimately.

00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:05.860
Ultimately and so we're launching the first national go

00:33:05.860 --> 00:33:09.920
paddle day which is on june 14th it's a saturday with

00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:12.860
the goal of all the brands retailers outfitters sales reps

00:33:12.860 --> 00:33:16.360
media association schools all getting together and

00:33:16.360 --> 00:33:21.380
promoting the call to action to get back into paddle sports if you've kind of

00:33:21.380 --> 00:33:24.460
lapsed for a bit or go and enjoy a special day of paddle sports and bring a

00:33:24.460 --> 00:33:27.980
friend and kind of introduce them into what's special about paddle sports and

00:33:27.980 --> 00:33:31.840
ideally you know they fall in love with it and they get as much out of it as

00:33:31.840 --> 00:33:34.040
everyone in this, you know, I can you copy it's gotten out of it.

00:33:34.360 --> 00:33:36.680
All right. So how will, how will that roll out around the country?

00:33:37.618 --> 00:33:40.558
We're actually around the world i guess right yeah we're doing national

00:33:40.558 --> 00:33:43.558
this year okay but certainly there has been quite a bit of talk from

00:33:43.558 --> 00:33:46.578
europe but kind of maybe doing something more international what's going

00:33:46.578 --> 00:33:49.638
to happen is so we launched it officially yesterday there's a

00:33:49.638 --> 00:33:53.098
website that gopaddleday.com and

00:33:53.098 --> 00:33:56.418
what will happen is all the different people who are going to have an event

00:33:56.418 --> 00:33:59.918
will be able to host their event on that website and you'll be able to link

00:33:59.918 --> 00:34:05.478
on there and see which one's close to you and all the the ptc the paddle sports

00:34:05.478 --> 00:34:10.158
trade coalition is going to be marketing out through a unified push of what

00:34:10.158 --> 00:34:11.458
this event can do for you,

00:34:11.818 --> 00:34:17.458
the health benefits, that whole camaraderie of it, and allowing retailers who

00:34:17.458 --> 00:34:21.098
have activities, maybe a barbecue or a free demo day,

00:34:21.338 --> 00:34:22.958
or a guest speaker coming in

00:34:22.958 --> 00:34:27.658
to link up to the end paddler to come in and check that whole scene out.

00:34:28.018 --> 00:34:31.098
Okay. And is there a way you're tracking participation or something?

00:34:31.218 --> 00:34:34.658
So at the end, you know, we have had 4 million people on the water or something

00:34:34.658 --> 00:34:36.998
of that type? Yeah, we're definitely doing, you know, there's going to be some

00:34:36.998 --> 00:34:38.378
unique hashtags out there.

00:34:38.518 --> 00:34:42.218
We're also doing a prize pack. So we're going to look at about 150 different

00:34:42.218 --> 00:34:48.378
vendors and brands within the Palsport space. We're going to be posting up prizes.

00:34:48.698 --> 00:34:52.958
So if you know the best picture or the most number of participants at an event, you'll be able to get it.

00:34:53.018 --> 00:34:55.598
You'll win a prize, like let's say like a level six dry suit or something like

00:34:55.598 --> 00:34:57.738
that. And we'll send directly to you. Very nice.

00:34:58.338 --> 00:35:01.138
So how's the show been for you? It's been good, actually. I mean,

00:35:01.238 --> 00:35:04.678
every year we come here and we always launch, you know, what new things are coming down the line.

00:35:04.678 --> 00:35:07.938
Get to talk about some of the innovation that we are working on,

00:35:08.338 --> 00:35:12.318
you know, new fabrics, you know, our sustainability quest, you know,

00:35:12.398 --> 00:35:17.478
we're 100% PFAS free on our products now, almost all recycled fabrics.

00:35:18.018 --> 00:35:20.478
So again, you can talk to the consumer about that. And then also even better,

00:35:20.478 --> 00:35:24.538
I love about Knucopia is the ability for the consumers to give us feedback on

00:35:24.538 --> 00:35:28.118
where we maybe, maybe we missed the boat on something or we need to be, you know,

00:35:28.238 --> 00:35:31.138
focusing more on this because that's a category that we're thinking about.

00:35:31.298 --> 00:35:33.358
So yeah, it's always good to come here. Excellent.

00:35:33.578 --> 00:35:37.858
And you've got some things in the development as far as new fabrics and new products. We do. Yeah.

00:35:38.038 --> 00:35:42.778
I mean, I'd say it's probably the biggest innovation cycle that Level 6 has ever done.

00:35:42.978 --> 00:35:47.058
I started the company when I was 24 years old. We've been around for 27 years now.

00:35:47.178 --> 00:35:52.098
And this is our biggest push in what's, you know, kind of hopefully trying to

00:35:52.098 --> 00:35:55.638
redefine what Paddle Sports equipment will be for the next decade.

00:35:55.638 --> 00:35:59.938
And you'll start seeing that come out in our line this fall and then next spring.

00:36:00.058 --> 00:36:03.718
And then in 2027 will be a substantial launch of what we're coming down that.

00:36:04.436 --> 00:36:07.296
New product launches. That's fantastic. Stig, thank you very much.

00:36:07.356 --> 00:36:11.136
I appreciate you joining me. How can people find out more about Go Paddle Day

00:36:11.136 --> 00:36:12.376
and the Paddle Sports Trade Coalition?

00:36:12.656 --> 00:36:16.956
Yeah, I mean, the easiest way is to go to paddlesportstradecoalition.org.

00:36:17.136 --> 00:36:21.216
And that's the main site where we host all of our different initiatives,

00:36:21.456 --> 00:36:24.476
what we're all about, you know, what brands are involved, what retailers,

00:36:24.656 --> 00:36:28.556
outfitters are involved, and sales reps, how to become a member if you're one

00:36:28.556 --> 00:36:31.236
of those categories to help support what we're trying to accomplish.

00:36:31.696 --> 00:36:35.296
And within there, you'll be able to see the PTC CoLab, which is an event we

00:36:35.296 --> 00:36:39.896
hold in September, which is an AGM or a round table, if you will,

00:36:39.956 --> 00:36:43.596
of all the principles involved in trying to get paddle sports to be in a stronger place.

00:36:43.896 --> 00:36:47.076
And then, of course, our new Go Paddle Day. It's all involved up there.

00:36:47.596 --> 00:36:51.476
Fantastic. Well, thanks for the work that you're doing with the Paddle Forks Trade Coalition.

00:36:51.756 --> 00:36:55.116
Thanks for your work that you're doing with Level 6, as well as making sure

00:36:55.116 --> 00:36:57.656
we're protecting our environment and delivering great products.

00:36:57.776 --> 00:36:59.456
Thank you. Awesome. Thanks for having me again. And of course,

00:36:59.616 --> 00:37:02.436
people can always visit level6.com to learn more about you and your products.

00:37:02.556 --> 00:37:04.296
Yes. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you. Bye.

00:37:04.816 --> 00:37:07.596
A big welcome to Darren Bush. Darren, thank you for joining us.

00:37:07.756 --> 00:37:11.956
Thanks for having me. Yeah. So Darren is the owner of Rutabaga Paddle Sports.

00:37:12.136 --> 00:37:16.416
So again, we're here at Canucopia and this is your baby along with your team's baby.

00:37:16.736 --> 00:37:20.336
Thank you for saying it that way. Yeah. It's my baby, but I have a lot of babysitters.

00:37:20.636 --> 00:37:24.536
Yes. And you've got a great team that has put together another fantastic event

00:37:24.536 --> 00:37:26.736
as we start to reach the close of the event here.

00:37:27.136 --> 00:37:30.396
Yeah. They're the best people I know. Yeah. I really love my staff. They're fantastic.

00:37:30.676 --> 00:37:34.416
Absolutely. So how's the show been for you? It's been good. I'm exhausted. Yeah.

00:37:34.696 --> 00:37:39.076
More, the more so there's, there's a few hiccups with border stuff and tariffs

00:37:39.076 --> 00:37:40.936
and trying to figure all that out, you know, it's.

00:37:42.362 --> 00:37:45.342
Everybody that I've talked to is happy. I've probably had more high fives and

00:37:45.342 --> 00:37:47.322
hugs this show than any other.

00:37:47.482 --> 00:37:50.982
And I think part of that is because of the political climate, right?

00:37:51.182 --> 00:37:54.202
It's been so much division and just negativity. And they're like,

00:37:54.342 --> 00:37:59.802
in this room, there's like a circle of keep negatives out, positives in.

00:38:00.282 --> 00:38:04.022
So that's been a big part of the show is people are very happy and very positive.

00:38:04.462 --> 00:38:08.322
They are enjoying the camaraderie and the community because,

00:38:08.442 --> 00:38:10.942
you know, at the end of the day, we're all paddlers. That's right.

00:38:11.082 --> 00:38:12.222
We're all here to have a good time.

00:38:12.382 --> 00:38:16.602
We're all here to see our friends and all here to plan for the coming year to

00:38:16.602 --> 00:38:17.522
make great things happen.

00:38:17.682 --> 00:38:22.682
And speaking of great things happening now, Door County Sea Kayak Symposium ran for 20 years.

00:38:23.202 --> 00:38:27.422
And unfortunately, there was a mishap with the venue on that.

00:38:27.822 --> 00:38:30.662
Burning it to the ground is a mishap. Yes, it is.

00:38:31.762 --> 00:38:34.822
So while that was disappointing, that gave you the opportunity to kind of sit

00:38:34.822 --> 00:38:36.802
back and say, how did we reinvent this thing?

00:38:36.962 --> 00:38:42.002
So how has it been reinvented? So here's how it, here's the process of how it works.

00:38:42.162 --> 00:38:45.662
So first I'm like, okay, so Door County Sea Kayak Symposium is awesome.

00:38:45.802 --> 00:38:47.982
We love it, right? It's great. We've been doing it 20 years.

00:38:48.482 --> 00:38:52.642
And like, you know, we looked around Door County to find another spot and there

00:38:52.642 --> 00:38:57.442
was no place that had the same access to water, the same amount of housing in one spot.

00:38:57.842 --> 00:39:00.702
And one of the things that makes Door County special, that made Door County

00:39:00.702 --> 00:39:02.582
special is the community involved

00:39:02.582 --> 00:39:06.822
in being in one location and having that central locus of community.

00:39:07.402 --> 00:39:13.422
So there's no place else to do it. So last June, no, July, I'm up in Boulder

00:39:13.422 --> 00:39:17.342
Junction and my, my wife and I rent the best cabin in the world up there.

00:39:17.522 --> 00:39:18.922
You know, somebody else's, right?

00:39:19.362 --> 00:39:22.082
So we rent it for a week and we spend a little bit of money.

00:39:22.242 --> 00:39:24.442
And then when the septic blows up, we just go, yep, bye.

00:39:24.842 --> 00:39:27.662
So that was great. And I'm paddling around on Trout Lake.

00:39:27.982 --> 00:39:32.302
Trout Lake's five miles long and three miles wide. And I'm like a little bit

00:39:32.302 --> 00:39:34.362
of wind shot. I said, we could teach sea kayaking here.

00:39:34.962 --> 00:39:38.922
Easy. I mean, and a lot of the stuff we teach at Door County is on inland lakes

00:39:38.922 --> 00:39:39.962
for the beginners, right?

00:39:40.402 --> 00:39:44.542
So why not do it here? I'm like, okay, cool. And I'm thinking, you know what?

00:39:45.662 --> 00:39:50.402
Recreational kayakers get no love, right? Sea kayakers sometimes will snobbly

00:39:50.402 --> 00:39:53.082
make fun of them. It's like a stupid little wreck boat, blah, blah, blah.

00:39:53.562 --> 00:39:56.302
Those people are just as much paddlers as we are. Absolutely.

00:39:56.682 --> 00:39:57.782
They're part of the community.

00:39:58.022 --> 00:40:01.482
They deserve respect. They also deserve instruction, right? Because it's like,

00:40:01.502 --> 00:40:02.122
oh, it's just a wreck boat.

00:40:02.222 --> 00:40:06.082
You get in and go. I said, you know, most of the fatalities and injuries that

00:40:06.082 --> 00:40:10.482
happen in kayaks are recreational kayaks. They're not sea kayakers, right?

00:40:10.622 --> 00:40:13.282
They know how to handle their boat and where to go.

00:40:13.722 --> 00:40:15.802
But the wreck boaters, they don't know what they don't know.

00:40:16.382 --> 00:40:19.662
And I put it out there and said, you know what? Those people deserve some love too.

00:40:20.282 --> 00:40:24.282
And then I'm paddling around in my canoe on some of these little lakes up there.

00:40:24.322 --> 00:40:26.542
And I'm like, why not have canoes there too?

00:40:27.282 --> 00:40:31.202
And I'm thinking, well, why not have canoes there? Because there's a lot of,

00:40:31.202 --> 00:40:35.102
you know, crossover. where there's people that only kayak, people that only canoe.

00:40:35.682 --> 00:40:38.922
That's just dumb. So why don't we have a place where if they want to,

00:40:39.022 --> 00:40:40.702
they can cross over? So we have classes...

00:40:41.850 --> 00:40:46.050
So anyway, so we created this thing, Camp Rutabaga. So I went up north with

00:40:46.050 --> 00:40:49.550
Al Fairfield, who's one of the instructors at Kenyacovia, who lives up that

00:40:49.550 --> 00:40:51.110
way. And he knows the area cold.

00:40:51.550 --> 00:40:55.550
I said, let's go look at some venues. So we went to Camp Manitowish in Boulder

00:40:55.550 --> 00:40:57.490
Junction. And I said, we're not looking anywhere else.

00:40:57.510 --> 00:40:59.890
This place is awesome. So it's on the water.

00:41:00.310 --> 00:41:03.690
They have a big, beautiful dining hall instead of a tent.

00:41:04.650 --> 00:41:08.150
They're round family-style tables where people can sit around and talk.

00:41:08.150 --> 00:41:10.610
Because, you know, one of the limitations of Door County is,

00:41:10.710 --> 00:41:12.370
you know, long skinny mess hall tables.

00:41:12.710 --> 00:41:15.250
You can talk to three people, right? And these round tables,

00:41:15.450 --> 00:41:20.350
it's going to be canoeists and kayakers and everybody just like, so what'd you do today?

00:41:20.410 --> 00:41:23.010
I learned how to paddle canoe. That's cool.

00:41:23.530 --> 00:41:27.830
We have classes paddling kayak for the canoeist and paddling the canoe for the kayakers.

00:41:27.990 --> 00:41:32.090
So they can each, for very low risk, go out for three or four hours and say,

00:41:32.170 --> 00:41:33.270
you know what? This is kind of cool.

00:41:33.890 --> 00:41:36.750
So, I mean, there's places where kayaks are better than the canoes and there's

00:41:36.750 --> 00:41:38.370
places where canoes are better than kayaks.

00:41:39.510 --> 00:41:42.410
And, well, more appropriate is probably a better way to look at it, right?

00:41:42.970 --> 00:41:46.310
So why not give those people the chance to try things out and see what it's

00:41:46.310 --> 00:41:48.870
like? And they may go, yeah, okay, canoeing's cool, but it's not for me.

00:41:48.930 --> 00:41:51.590
Or they may go, I could use this. This is cool.

00:41:51.850 --> 00:41:55.690
Paddling in the winter, fall getting in and out of a muddy stream bank and a

00:41:55.690 --> 00:41:58.070
kayak is not so much fun sometimes, right?

00:41:58.450 --> 00:42:02.650
But in a canoe, it's easy to get in and out. So you come to a log jam,

00:42:02.990 --> 00:42:05.470
getting through a log jam and a kayak, kind of tricky, you know?

00:42:05.470 --> 00:42:09.490
So there's times and places for both, so why not have them in the same spot?

00:42:10.190 --> 00:42:14.670
And I knew that it was a good idea when I got a Facebook post from a woman who

00:42:14.670 --> 00:42:16.850
said, you know what, I'd love Door County for years.

00:42:17.370 --> 00:42:21.710
I'm getting older, I'm getting wider, I don't fit in a sea kayak anymore.

00:42:22.270 --> 00:42:25.050
And so I got a rec kayak and I always felt a little bit like I was,

00:42:25.090 --> 00:42:26.930
you know, getting a downgrade.

00:42:27.170 --> 00:42:30.870
I said, absolutely not. You know, you are part of us, you are still part of

00:42:30.870 --> 00:42:35.350
us and you are welcome and we'll do rescues in Recbo.

00:42:36.133 --> 00:42:40.453
It won't be pretty, but they'll learn that it's not pretty and maybe decide

00:42:40.453 --> 00:42:43.153
based on where I'm going, I'm going to get a boat with some bulkheads.

00:42:43.393 --> 00:42:47.613
Right. Or realize that, you know, then I can't take this boat to that environment.

00:42:47.813 --> 00:42:51.953
Right. I can't go to Sam Bay, right? I can't go on the Apostles.

00:42:52.033 --> 00:42:52.873
I can't go on Lake Superior.

00:42:53.133 --> 00:42:56.973
But I can paddle 20 feet from the shore of any lake I want to.

00:42:57.273 --> 00:43:02.533
And, you know, usually my recommendation to rec boaters is never paddle farther

00:43:02.533 --> 00:43:04.353
than the shore that you're willing to swim and pull your boat.

00:43:04.353 --> 00:43:09.653
Because that will always work right and go out when it's warm don't go out when it's chilly,

00:43:10.233 --> 00:43:13.133
and you know use a spray skirt when it's windy and and

00:43:13.133 --> 00:43:16.253
you're perfectly fine right so know the limitations of

00:43:16.253 --> 00:43:19.833
yourself and your equipment and they might go i'm good this i'm good like this

00:43:19.833 --> 00:43:22.733
i just have a little pond by my house i just paddle around and i'm happy as

00:43:22.733 --> 00:43:27.893
a clam so but they might decide you know maybe a kayak's cool maybe a pack boat's

00:43:27.893 --> 00:43:32.173
cool right because a pack boat's just a kayak without a top on it yep and when

00:43:32.173 --> 00:43:33.613
it comes down to it at the end of the day.

00:43:33.753 --> 00:43:36.253
We're all paddlers. We're all looking to have fun on the water.

00:43:36.513 --> 00:43:39.013
Why not all come together and experience something different?

00:43:39.693 --> 00:43:43.893
Absolutely right. Yeah. I love the idea of the bucking, the conventional wisdom

00:43:43.893 --> 00:43:47.713
that it has to be one type of craft, one type of thing at the location.

00:43:47.873 --> 00:43:50.453
Let's just get out there and have fun and enjoy.

00:43:50.873 --> 00:43:53.973
Bucking conventional wisdom is in my job description, right?

00:43:54.413 --> 00:43:59.873
And it might flop spectacularly, but we open registration like Thursday. day.

00:44:00.033 --> 00:44:03.393
I'm madly coding and putting stuff on the backside so we can open it.

00:44:03.773 --> 00:44:06.953
And I ran into like 15 people. I said, yeah, we're signing up already.

00:44:07.193 --> 00:44:08.713
I've heard lots of buzz here at the show.

00:44:09.013 --> 00:44:11.653
So how can people learn more if they're interested in joining us?

00:44:11.933 --> 00:44:16.353
Well, interestingly, I bought the URL Everyone Paddles when I created the Door

00:44:16.353 --> 00:44:19.373
County Symposium, when we created the Door County Symposium, our team did.

00:44:19.913 --> 00:44:23.853
And so we just reused it because Everyone Paddles, it's actually better, right?

00:44:24.233 --> 00:44:27.493
So they type in Everyone Paddles, it takes them to the Camp Rutabaga page.

00:44:27.633 --> 00:44:30.613
They can read about it they can look at the course offerings and they

00:44:30.613 --> 00:44:33.993
can sign up cool and i love the camp name too it's

00:44:33.993 --> 00:44:36.913
it's it you know we for years we've referred to it as adult summer camp

00:44:36.913 --> 00:44:40.313
and now you're just symposium sounds

00:44:40.313 --> 00:44:45.793
stuffy i hate the term symposium the problem is we inherited it right someone

00:44:45.793 --> 00:44:50.873
called it a symposium 30 years ago and it just stuck it's not a symposium symposium

00:44:50.873 --> 00:44:55.233
is an academic thing this is a camp right this is just having fun but because

00:44:55.233 --> 00:44:57.453
of the the dining hall and the kitchen there.

00:44:58.453 --> 00:45:01.033
We can, you know, dinner's included just like it was at Door County.

00:45:01.073 --> 00:45:03.893
But if someone wants breakfast and lunch, they can click on a button and sign

00:45:03.893 --> 00:45:06.993
up for it and not have to worry about, you know, trying to find a place to eat.

00:45:07.633 --> 00:45:12.833
So I, it's, it's not perfect, but it's dang close to perfect. Yeah.

00:45:13.373 --> 00:45:16.073
That's fantastic. Darren, thank you very much for joining us.

00:45:16.393 --> 00:45:18.293
Thanks for, for all you do with Rutabaga.

00:45:18.473 --> 00:45:22.213
Thanks for all the entire team does to make Canoe Copia such a wonderful event

00:45:22.213 --> 00:45:24.233
and really looking forward to Camp Rutabaga as well.

00:45:24.513 --> 00:45:27.433
Thank you so much. I'm very grateful for this opportunity. Thank you.

00:45:30.462 --> 00:45:34.042
If you want to be a stronger and more efficient paddler, Power to the Paddle

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is packed with fitness guidance and complete descriptions, along with photos

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The concept and exercises in this book have helped me become a better paddler,

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and they can make a difference for you too.

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low back, use the power of your torso to create leverage and use less energy

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strokes more efficient,

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Have the endurance to handle long days in the boat, drive through the toughest

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and while you're at it, you might even lose a few pounds.

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And who wouldn't mind that? So visit paddlingexercises.com to get the book and companion DVD.

00:46:17.682 --> 00:46:21.262
Canucopia is so much more than gear. It's so much more than a trade show.

00:46:21.702 --> 00:46:26.042
It's about the relationships. It's about the friends. As we emerge from a long

00:46:26.042 --> 00:46:29.182
winter, it's nice to get together with friends and talk about past and future

00:46:29.182 --> 00:46:32.362
adventures together. and there's things like this to remind you what a great

00:46:32.362 --> 00:46:35.722
community of paddlers we have around us. Thank you all for being so much fun.

00:46:35.902 --> 00:46:38.922
I always enjoy checking out the show floor and finding new things,

00:46:39.362 --> 00:46:42.602
organizations doing good things for paddlers and events that you might be interested

00:46:42.602 --> 00:46:45.142
in attending and I hope you enjoyed hearing from today's guests.

00:46:45.702 --> 00:46:50.342
Get out on Go Paddle Day, June 14. We'll include information on our socials

00:46:50.342 --> 00:46:55.262
as it becomes available and I will be at Camp Rutabaga in September and I hope to see you there too.

00:46:55.782 --> 00:47:00.002
Thanks as always to our partners at OnlineSeaKayaking.com and Online Whitewater

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for extending that special offer to you.

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Visit OnlineSeaKyking.com or OnlineWhitewater.com and take advantage of the

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great video lessons that James and Simon have assembled.

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00:47:15.922 --> 00:47:19.102
Until next time, thanks again for listening, and I look forward to bringing

00:47:19.102 --> 00:47:21.622
you the next episode of Paddling the Blue.

00:47:23.982 --> 00:47:27.542
Thank you for listening to Paddling the Blue. You can subscribe to Paddling

00:47:27.542 --> 00:47:31.842
the Blue on Apple Music, Spotify, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

00:47:32.062 --> 00:47:34.982
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00:47:34.982 --> 00:47:36.822
We truly appreciate the support.

00:47:37.002 --> 00:47:40.262
And you can find the show notes for this episode and other episodes,

00:47:40.582 --> 00:47:46.042
along with replays of past episodes, contact information, and more at paddlingtheblue.com.

00:47:46.182 --> 00:47:49.302
Until next time, I hope you get out and paddle the blue.

00:47:52.080 --> 00:47:55.512
Music.